From: Yuval Kogman <nothingmuch@woobling•org>
To: AdamISZ <AdamISZ@protonmail•com>
Cc: Peter Todd <pete@petertodd•org>,
Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Reiterating centralized coinjoin (Wasabi & Samourai) deanonymization attacks
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2025 16:42:56 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAAQdECAzM0Gi_bZgMNyTCamQk-aiqSEtW9WYWGGn80nytGYFPg@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <sqPb0Ljo2YteBE3rTHUfnrdHihbV9UnZjM4Q7tfqYzDuqsGZbHcaqJnU9LYwN7_iaqIO9B-FVAx3aXRyuDh1TnzZ-Mnp_2vRC4JblnvN1O4=@protonmail.com>
On Thu, 13 Feb 2025 at 15:53, AdamISZ <AdamISZ@protonmail•com> wrote:
> Is there an easy reference for the 0.2 btc revenue per month data point? I'm not sure I'm going to get through all the references here and the gist etc. So I may just be asking for a reference that's already here, if so, apologies.
This is data from https://liquisabi.com/ filtering by coinjoin.kruw.io
coordinator, and by date range. Available data begins in October, and
is based on the estimation code that floppy shared, which can be
fairly easily manipulated in both directions, so taking it at face
value assumes neither the coordinator nor the clients were modified to
bias the estimated earnings. These estimates haven't been disputed,
and in some sense implied to be accurate (https://archive.is/PoyYB
https://archive.is/bpaxH).
> I'm curious because I do remember that Peter had some unorthodox thoughts about altruistic behaviour being part of the story with these anonymising technologies (we were talking about Tor as well as coinjoin)
FWIW wabisabi coordinators provide the service of censorship, not
privacy, privacy is a positive externality obtained from other
coinjoin participants and the coordinator's job is to keep out
disruptive inputs, i.e. ensure liveness without being trusted with
preserving privacy.
I'm not sure what altruism would entail here, but FWIW i don't think
there's any problem with the coordinator earning revenues, only with
it being misrepresented as "free" and "trustless".
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2025-02-13 15:56 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 13+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2024-12-21 14:16 Yuval Kogman
2025-01-06 13:07 ` Sjors Provoost
2025-01-06 14:30 ` Yuval Kogman
2025-01-07 15:56 ` waxwing/ AdamISZ
2025-01-07 21:33 ` Yuval Kogman
2025-01-23 16:25 ` Peter Todd
2025-01-24 16:00 ` Peter Todd
2025-01-24 16:38 ` waxwing/ AdamISZ
2025-02-04 14:02 ` Yuval Kogman
2025-02-04 22:22 ` Peter Todd
2025-02-07 20:07 ` Yuval Kogman
[not found] ` <sqPb0Ljo2YteBE3rTHUfnrdHihbV9UnZjM4Q7tfqYzDuqsGZbHcaqJnU9LYwN7_iaqIO9B-FVAx3aXRyuDh1TnzZ-Mnp_2vRC4JblnvN1O4=@protonmail.com>
2025-02-13 15:42 ` Yuval Kogman [this message]
2025-02-12 10:17 ` /dev /fd0
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