From: Gregory Maxwell <gmaxwell@gmail•com>
To: Gavin Andresen <gavinandresen@gmail•com>
Cc: Bitcoin Development <bitcoin-development@lists•sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposed alternatives to the 20MB step function
Date: Sun, 10 May 2015 21:33:15 +0000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAAS2fgTX3ScbMmd2cWqhxfdN1OE5dxNhVvJ9pa0hNsKwWKqzJg@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CABsx9T2+ThQ+z2wyb_NbDWEK1zJO-WaLMdDU3ewpTELNKhb7YA@mail.gmail.com>
On Sun, May 10, 2015 at 9:21 PM, Gavin Andresen <gavinandresen@gmail•com> wrote:
> a while I think any algorithm that ties difficulty to block size is just a
> complicated way of dictating minimum fees.
Thats not the long term effect or the motivation-- what you're seeing
is that the subsidy gets in the way here. Consider how the procedure
behaves with subsidy being negligible compared to fees. What it
accomplishes in that case is that it incentivizes increasing the size
until the marginal "value" to miners of the transaction-data being
left out is not enormously smaller than the "value" of the data in the
block on average. Value in quotes because it's blind to the "fees"
the transaction claims.
With a large subsidy, the marginal value of the first byte in the
block is HUGE; and so that pushes up the average-- and creates the
"base fee effect" that you're looking at. It's not that anyone is
picking a fee there, it's that someone picked the subsidy there. :)
As the subsidy goes down the only thing fees are relative to is fees.
An earlier version of the proposal took subsidy out of the picture
completely by increasing it linearly with the increased difficulty;
but that creates additional complexity both to implement and to
explain to people (e.g. that the setup doesn't change the supply of
coins); ... I suppose without it that starting disadvantage parameter
(the offset that reduces the size if you're indifferent) needs to be
much smaller, unfortunately.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2015-05-10 21:33 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 69+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2015-05-08 7:20 Matt Whitlock
2015-05-08 10:15 ` Mike Hearn
2015-05-08 10:30 ` Clément Elbaz
2015-05-08 12:32 ` Joel Joonatan Kaartinen
2015-05-08 12:48 ` Matt Whitlock
2015-05-08 13:24 ` Matt Whitlock
2015-05-08 12:48 ` Gavin Andresen
2015-05-08 16:51 ` Peter Todd
2015-05-08 22:36 ` Joel Joonatan Kaartinen
2015-05-09 18:30 ` Peter Todd
2015-05-08 15:57 ` Alex Mizrahi
2015-05-08 16:55 ` Bryan Bishop
2015-05-08 20:33 ` Mark Friedenbach
2015-05-08 22:43 ` Aaron Voisine
2015-05-08 22:45 ` Mark Friedenbach
2015-05-08 23:15 ` Aaron Voisine
2015-05-08 23:58 ` Mark Friedenbach
2015-05-09 3:36 ` Gregory Maxwell
2015-05-09 11:58 ` Gavin Andresen
2015-05-09 13:49 ` Tier Nolan
2015-05-10 17:36 ` Owen Gunden
2015-05-10 18:10 ` Mark Friedenbach
2015-05-10 21:21 ` Gavin Andresen
2015-05-10 21:33 ` Gregory Maxwell [this message]
2015-05-10 21:56 ` Rob Golding
2015-05-13 10:43 ` Tier Nolan
2015-05-16 0:22 ` Rusty Russell
2015-05-16 11:09 ` Tier Nolan
2015-05-18 1:42 ` Rusty Russell
2015-05-19 8:59 ` Tier Nolan
2015-05-10 21:48 ` Thomas Voegtlin
2015-05-10 22:31 ` Mark Friedenbach
2015-05-10 23:11 ` Thomas Voegtlin
2015-05-28 15:53 ` Gavin Andresen
2015-05-28 17:05 ` Mike Hearn
2015-05-28 17:19 ` Gavin Andresen
2015-05-28 17:34 ` Mike Hearn
2015-05-28 18:23 ` Gavin Andresen
2015-05-29 11:26 ` Mike Hearn
2015-05-29 11:42 ` Tier Nolan
2015-05-29 11:57 ` Mike Hearn
2015-05-29 12:39 ` Gavin Andresen
2015-05-29 14:00 ` insecurity
2015-05-29 14:15 ` Braun Brelin
2015-05-29 14:09 ` Tier Nolan
2015-05-29 14:20 ` Gavin Andresen
2015-05-29 14:22 ` Mike Hearn
2015-05-29 14:21 ` Mike Hearn
2015-05-29 14:22 ` Tier Nolan
2015-05-29 16:39 ` [Bitcoin-development] Proposed alternatives to the 20MB stepfunction Raystonn .
2015-05-29 18:28 ` Tier Nolan
2015-05-29 17:53 ` [Bitcoin-development] Proposed alternatives to the 20MB step function Admin Istrator
2015-05-30 9:03 ` Aaron Voisine
2015-06-01 11:30 ` Ricardo Filipe
2015-06-01 11:46 ` Marcel Jamin
2015-05-29 18:47 ` Bryan Cheng
2015-05-30 1:36 ` Cameron Garnham
2015-05-28 17:39 ` [Bitcoin-development] Proposed alternatives to the 20MB stepfunction Raystonn .
2015-05-28 17:59 ` Pieter Wuille
2015-05-28 18:21 ` Gavin Andresen
2015-05-28 17:50 ` [Bitcoin-development] Proposed alternatives to the 20MB step function Peter Todd
2015-05-28 17:14 ` Thomas Voegtlin
2015-05-28 17:34 ` Pieter Wuille
2015-05-29 17:45 ` Aaron Voisine
2015-05-08 14:57 Steven Pine
2015-05-09 0:13 Raystonn
[not found] <CAAjy6kDdB8uODpPcmS8h4eap8fke7Y2y773NHJZja8tB5mPk4Q@mail.gmail.com>
2015-05-28 16:30 ` Steven Pine
[not found] ` <CABsx9T03aNRC5DRbR06nNtsiBdJAcQsGAHvbCOe3pnuRpdvq5w@mail.gmail.com>
2015-05-28 18:25 ` Steven Pine
2015-05-28 18:31 ` Gavin Andresen
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=CAAS2fgTX3ScbMmd2cWqhxfdN1OE5dxNhVvJ9pa0hNsKwWKqzJg@mail.gmail.com \
--to=gmaxwell@gmail$(echo .)com \
--cc=bitcoin-development@lists$(echo .)sourceforge.net \
--cc=gavinandresen@gmail$(echo .)com \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox