Let me re-phrase: Is it a known thing for users to actually use it? On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 9:52 AM, Matias Alejo Garcia wrote: > > > On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 11:34 AM, Greg Sanders via bitcoin-dev < > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > >> Has anyone actually used the multilingual support in bip39? >> > > > Copay (and all its clones) use it. > > > > > >> >> If a feature of the standard has not been(widely?) used in years, and >> isn't supported in any major wallet(?), it seems indicative it was a >> mistake to add it in the first place, since it's a footgun in the making >> for some poor sap who can't even read English letters when almost all >> documentation is written in English. >> >> On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 6:13 AM, nullius via bitcoin-dev < >> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: >> >>> On 2018-01-08 at 07:35:52 +0000, 木ノ下じょな wrote: >>> >>>> This is very sad. >>>> >>>> The number one problem in Japan with BIP39 seeds is with English words. >>>> >>>> I have seen a 60 year old Japanese man writing down his phrase (because >>>> he kept on failing recovery), and watched him write down "aneter" for >>>> "amateur"... >>>> >>>> [...] >>>> >>>> If you understand English and can spell, you read a word, your brain >>>> processes the word, and you can spell it on your own when writing down. >>>> Not many Japanese people can do that, so they need to copy letter for >>>> letter, taking a long time, and still messing up on occasion. >>>> >>>> [...] >>>> >>>> Defining "everyone should only use English, because ASCII is easier to >>>> plan for" is not a good way to move forward as a currency. >>>> >>> >>> Well said. Thank you for telling of these experiences. Now please, >>> let’s put the shoe on the other foot. >>> >>> I ask everybody who wants an English-only mnemonic standard to entrust >>> *their own money* to their abilities to very, very carefully write this >>> down—then later, type it back in: >>> >>> すさん たんろ りゆう しもん ていおん しとう >>> とこや はやい おうさま ほくろ けちゃっふ たもつ >>> >>> (Approximate translation: “Whatever would you do if Bitcoin had been >>> invented by somebody named Satoshi Nakamoto?”) >>> >>> No, wait: That is only a 12-word mnemonic. We are probably talking >>> about a Trezor; so now, hey you there, stake the backup of your life’s >>> savings on your ability to handwrite *this*: >>> >>> にあう しひょう にんすう ひえる かいこう いのる ねんし はあさん ひこく >>> とうく きもためし そなた こなこな にさんかたんそ ろんき めいあん みわく >>> へこむ すひょう おやゆひ ふせく けさき めいきょく こんまけ >>> >>> Ready to bet your money on *that* as a backup phrase in your own hands? >>> No? Then please, stop demanding that others risk *their* money on the >>> inverse case. >>> >>> ---- >>> >>> If you cheat here by having studied Japanese, then remember that many >>> Japanese people know English and other European languages, too. Then think >>> of how much money would be lost by your non-Japanese-literate family and >>> friends—if BIP 39 had only Japanese wordlists, and your folks needed to >>> wrestle with the above phrases as their “mnemonics”. >>> >>> In such cases, the phrases cannot be called “mnemonics” at all. A >>> “mnemonic” implies aid to memory. Gibberish in a wholly alien writing >>> system is much worse even than transcribing pseudorandom hex strings. The >>> Japanese man in the quoted story, who wrote “aneter” for “amateur”, was not >>> dealing with a *mnemonic*: He was using the world’s most inefficient means >>> of making cryptic bitstrings *less* userfriendly. >>> >>> ---- >>> >>> I began this thread with a quite simple request: Is “日本語” an >>> appropriate string for identifying the Japanese language to Japanese >>> users? And what of the other strings I posted for other languages? >>> >>> I asked this as an implementer working on my own instance of the >>> greatest guard against vendor lock-in and stale software: Independent >>> implementations. — I asked, because obviously, I myself do not speak all >>> these different languages; and I want to implement them all. *All.* >>> >>> Some replies have been interesting in their own right; but thus far, >>> nobody has squarely addressed the substance of my question. >>> >>> Most worrisome is that much of the discussion has veered into criticism >>> of multi-language support. I opened with a question about other languages, >>> and I am getting replies which raise a hue and cry of “English only!” >>> >>> Though I am fluent and literate in English, I am uninterested in ever >>> implementing any standard of this nature which is artificially restricted >>> to English. I am fortunate; for as of this moment, we have a standard >>> called “BIP 39” which has seven non-English wordlists, and four more >>> pending in open pull requests (#432, #442, #493, #621). >>> >>> I request discussion of language identification strings appropriate for >>> use with that standard. >>> >>> (P.S., I hope that my system did not mangle anything in the foregoing. >>> I have seen weird copypaste behaviour mess up decomposed characters. I >>> thought of this after I searched for and collected some visually >>> fascinating phrases; so I tried to normalize these to NFC... It should go >>> without saying, easyseed output the Japanese perfectly!) >>> >>> >>> -- >>> nullius@nym.zone | PGP ECC: 0xC2E91CD74A4C57A105F6C21B5A00591B2F307E0C >>> Bitcoin: bc1qcash96s5jqppzsp8hy8swkggf7f6agex98an7h | (Segwit nested: >>> 3NULL3ZCUXr7RDLxXeLPDMZDZYxuaYkCnG) (PGP RSA: 0x36EBB4AB699A10EE) >>> “‘If you’re not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to hide.’ >>> No! Because I do nothing wrong, I have nothing to show.” — nullius >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> bitcoin-dev mailing list >>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org >>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> bitcoin-dev mailing list >> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org >> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev >> >> > > > -- > Matías Alejo Garcia > @ematiu > Roads? Where we're going, we don't need roads! >