Hi Luke,

Can you elaborate why the current idealized functionality of deposit -> trigger -> withdrawal is too complicated for

everyday use but the above deposit -> withdrawal -> resolve(claim/clawback)  wouldn't be? I admit at a high level

it's a fine paradigm, but in practice would end 

Let's ignore implementation for the discussion, since that's in flux.

Cheers,

Greg

On Sat, Mar 11, 2023 at 3:53 PM Luke Dashjr via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

I started reviewing the BIP, but stopped part way through, as it seems
to have a number of conceptual issues.

I left several comments on the PR
(https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1421#pullrequestreview-1335925575),
but ultimately I think it isn't simplified enough for day-to-day use,
and would harm privacy quite a bit.

Instead, I would suggest a new approach where:

1) Joe receives funds with a taproot output like normal.
2) Joe sends funds to Fred, but Fred cannot spend them until N blocks
later (covenant-enforced relative locktime). Ideally, this should
use/support a taproot keypath spend somehow. It would be nice to blind
the particular relative locktime somehow too, but that may be too expensive.
2b) If Joe's funds were stolen, Joe can spend Fred's UTXO within the N
block window to a recovery output.

Unfortunately, the implementation details for this kind of setup are
non-obvious and will likely require yet another address format (or at
least recipient-wallet changes), but certainly seems within the scope of
possibility.

Thoughts?

Luke


On 2/13/23 16:09, James O'Beirne via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> Since the last related correspondence on this list [0], a number of
> improvements have been made to the OP_VAULT draft [1]:
>
> * There is no longer a hard dependence on package relay/ephemeral
>   anchors for fee management. When using "authorized recovery," all
>   vault-related transactions can be bundled with unrelated inputs and
>   outputs, facilitating fee management that is self contained to the
>   transaction. Consequently, the contents of this proposal are in theory
>   usable today.
>
> * Specific output locations are no longer hardcoded in any of the
>   transaction validation algorithms. This means that the proposal is now
>   compatible with future changes like SIGHASH_GROUP, and
>   transaction shapes for vault operations are more flexible.
>
> ---
>
> I've written a BIP that fully describes the proposal here:
>
> https://github.com/jamesob/bips/blob/jamesob-23-02-opvault/bip-vaults.mediawiki
>
> The corresponding PR is here:
>
> https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1421
>
> My next steps will be to try for a merge to the inquisition repo.
>
> Thanks to everyone who has participated so far, but especially to AJ and
> Greg for all the advice.
>
> James
>
> [0]:
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2023-January/021318.html
> [1]: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/26857
>
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> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
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