From: "Jorge Timón" <jtimon@jtimon•cc>
To: Gavin Andresen <gavinandresen@gmail•com>
Cc: bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] A Proposed Compromise to the Block Size Limit
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2015 19:53:40 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CABm2gDr2iftG2D+EF3dCx4Vf0M_J0cVzANRnLuhC1hSp_h8=Yg@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CABsx9T3PaBcYkXWyn=TmCROn61CGkEYD9qxob6hKGdD3sy-SyQ@mail.gmail.com>
On Sun, Jun 28, 2015 at 7:29 PM, Gavin Andresen <gavinandresen@gmail•com> wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 28, 2015 at 1:12 PM, Mark Friedenbach <mark@friedenbach•org>
> wrote:
>>
>> But ultimately, lightning usefully solves a problem where participants
>> have semi-long lived payment endpoints.
>
>
> Very few of my own personal Bitcoin transactions fit that use-case.
>
> In fact, very few of my own personal dollar transactions fit that use-case
> (I suppose if I was addicted to Starbucks I'd have one of their payment
> cards that I topped up every once in a while, which would map nicely onto a
> payment channel). I suppose I could setup a payment channel with the grocery
> store I shop at once a week, but that would be inconvenient (I'd have to
> pre-fund it) and bad for my privacy.
Unlike other payment channels designs, the lightning payment channel
network allows you to pay to people that you haven't sent a pre-fund
to.
There's must be a path in the network from you to the payee.
That's simpler with only a few hubs although too few hubs is bad for privacy.
> I can see how payment channels would work between big financial institutions
> as a settlement layer, but isn't that exactly the centralization concern
> that is making a lot of people worried about increasing the max block size?
Worried about financial institutions using Bitcoin? No. Who said that?
> And if there are only a dozen or two popular hubs, that's much worse
> centralization-wise compared to a few thousand fully-validating Bitcoin
> nodes.
Remember the hubs cannot steal any coins.
> Don't get me wrong, I think the Lightning Network is a fantastic idea and a
> great experiment and will likely be used for all sorts of great payment
> innovations (micropayments for bandwidth maybe, or maybe paying workers by
> the hour instead of at the end of the month). But I don't think it is a
> scaling solution for the types of payments the Bitcoin network is handling
> today.
I don't see how people could pay coffees with bitcoin in the long term
otherwise.
Bitcoin IOUs from a third party (or federation) maybe, but not with
real p2p btc.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2015-06-28 17:53 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 43+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2015-06-28 5:34 Raystonn
2015-06-28 10:07 ` Adam Back
2015-06-28 10:29 ` Benjamin
2015-06-28 12:37 ` Adam Back
2015-06-28 16:32 ` Raystonn .
2015-06-28 17:12 ` Mark Friedenbach
2015-06-28 17:18 ` Benjamin
2015-06-28 17:29 ` Gavin Andresen
2015-06-28 17:45 ` Mark Friedenbach
2015-06-28 17:51 ` Adam Back
2015-06-28 18:58 ` Adam Back
2015-06-28 21:05 ` Gavin Andresen
2015-06-28 21:23 ` Michael Naber
2015-06-28 22:07 ` Adam Back
2015-06-29 0:59 ` Eric Lombrozo
2015-06-29 1:13 ` Eric Lombrozo
2015-06-29 1:45 ` Andy Schroder
2015-06-30 0:42 ` Tom Harding
2015-07-10 2:55 ` Tom Harding
2015-06-28 17:53 ` Jorge Timón [this message]
2015-06-28 19:22 ` Andrew Lapp
2015-06-28 19:40 ` Benjamin
2015-06-28 12:32 ` Milly Bitcoin
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2015-06-27 14:39 Michael Naber
2015-06-27 15:21 ` Peter Todd
2015-06-27 15:29 ` Randi Joseph
2015-06-27 15:32 ` Peter Todd
2015-06-27 16:19 ` Michael Naber
2015-06-27 17:20 ` Peter Todd
2015-06-27 17:26 ` Benjamin
2015-06-27 17:37 ` Peter Todd
2015-06-27 17:46 ` Benjamin
2015-06-27 17:54 ` Peter Todd
2015-06-27 17:58 ` Venzen Khaosan
2015-06-27 19:34 ` Benjamin
2015-06-27 15:33 ` Adam Back
2015-06-27 16:09 ` Michael Naber
2015-06-27 16:28 ` Mark Friedenbach
2015-06-27 16:37 ` Peter Todd
2015-06-27 17:25 ` Michael Naber
2015-06-27 17:34 ` Peter Todd
2015-06-27 18:02 ` Jameson Lopp
2015-06-27 18:47 ` Peter Todd
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