From: Gavin Andresen <gavinandresen@gmail•com>
To: Allen Piscitello <allen.piscitello@gmail•com>
Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Is it possible for there to be two chains after a hard fork?
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2015 14:01:59 -0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CABsx9T07DUjWoEmqmysya90Fxf4RkM7K18ZaP7pP3Hgk5rN-_Q@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAJfRnm4WwtNvChcCGCzDLJZrg3VZqJz-X-XXC0Ftyga3x=P8-w@mail.gmail.com>
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1657 bytes --]
We really shouldn't have to go over "Bitcoin 101" on this mailing list, and
this discussion should move to the not-yet-created more general discussion
list. I started this thread as a sanity check on myself, because I keep
seeing smart people saying that two chains could persist for more than a
few days after a hard fork, and I still don't see how that would possibly
work.
So: "fraud" would be 51% miners sending you bitcoin in exchange for
something of value, you wait for confirmations and send them that something
of value, and then the 51% reverses the transaction.
Running a full node doesn't help.
On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 1:55 PM, Allen Piscitello <
allen.piscitello@gmail•com> wrote:
> >A dishonest miner majority can commit fraud against you, they can mine
> only empty blocks, they can do various other things that render your money
> worthless.
>
> Mining empty blocks is not fraud.
>
> If you want to use terms like "honest miners" and "fraud", please define
> them so we can at least be on the same page.
>
> I am defining an honest miner as one that follows the rules of the
> protocol. Obviously your definition is different.
>
> On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 12:51 PM, Mike Hearn <hearn@vinumeris•com> wrote:
>
>> >because Bitcoin's basic security assumption is that a supermajority of
>>> miners are 'honest.'
>>>
>>> Only if you rely on SPV.
>>>
>>
>> No, you rely on miners honesty even if you run a full node. This is in
>> the white paper. A dishonest miner majority can commit fraud against you,
>> they can mine only empty blocks, they can do various other things that
>> render your money worthless.
>>
>
>
--
--
Gavin Andresen
[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 3260 bytes --]
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2015-09-29 18:02 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 12+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2015-09-29 14:04 Gavin Andresen
2015-09-29 14:17 ` Jonathan Toomim (Toomim Bros)
2015-09-29 14:59 ` Mark Friedenbach
2015-09-29 17:24 ` Allen Piscitello
2015-09-29 17:35 ` Gavin Andresen
2015-09-29 17:43 ` Allen Piscitello
2015-09-29 17:51 ` Mike Hearn
2015-09-29 17:55 ` Allen Piscitello
2015-09-29 18:01 ` Gavin Andresen [this message]
2015-09-29 18:23 ` Allen Piscitello
2015-09-30 16:14 ` Jorge Timón
2015-09-29 18:02 ` Mike Hearn
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=CABsx9T07DUjWoEmqmysya90Fxf4RkM7K18ZaP7pP3Hgk5rN-_Q@mail.gmail.com \
--to=gavinandresen@gmail$(echo .)com \
--cc=allen.piscitello@gmail$(echo .)com \
--cc=bitcoin-dev@lists$(echo .)linuxfoundation.org \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox