From: Gavin Andresen <gavin@bitcoinfoundation•org>
To: Peter Todd <pete@petertodd•org>
Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists•sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Tree-chains preliminary summary
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 08:45:00 -0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CABsx9T149f9of9+sYMFazAxtRi=ZJrpA1B41buERD3+j7NGKmg@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20140325122851.GA9818@savin>
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On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 8:28 AM, Peter Todd <pete@petertodd•org> wrote:
> Bitcoin doesn't scale. There's a lot of issues at hand here, but the
> most fundemental of them is that to create a block you need to update
> the state of the UTXO set, and the way Bitcoin is designed means that
> updating that state requires bandwidth equal to all the transaction
> volume to keep up with the changes to what set. Long story short, we get
> O(n^2) scaling, which is just plain infeasible.
>
We have a fundamental disagreement here.
If you go back and read Satoshi's original thoughts on scaling, it is clear
that he imagined tens of thousands of mining nodes and hundreds of millions
of lightweight SPV users.
Scaling is a problem if every person is a fully validating node; then,
indeed, you get an O(n^2) problem. Which can be solved by extending some
tentative trust to your peers, but lets put all those possible solutions
aside.
Given tens of thousands of fully validating nodes, you get O(m*n), where m
is the number of fully validating peers and is a large constant (10s of
thousands).
We don't know how large m can or will be; we have only just started to
scale up.
"Bitcoin doesn't scale" is pure FUD. It might not scale in exactly the way
you want, but it WILL scale.
--
--
Gavin Andresen
Chief Scientist, Bitcoin Foundation
https://www.bitcoinfoundation.org/
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2014-03-25 12:45 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 36+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2014-03-22 8:47 [Bitcoin-development] Handling miner adoption gracefully for embedded consensus systems via double-spending/replace-by-fee Peter Todd
2014-03-22 13:53 ` Jorge Timón
2014-03-22 19:34 ` Peter Todd
2014-03-22 20:12 ` Jorge Timón
2014-03-23 23:17 ` Troy Benjegerdes
2014-03-23 23:53 ` Mark Friedenbach
2014-03-24 20:34 ` Troy Benjegerdes
2014-03-24 20:57 ` Mark Friedenbach
2014-03-25 22:10 ` Troy Benjegerdes
2014-03-26 1:09 ` kjj
2014-03-22 15:08 ` Troy Benjegerdes
2014-03-22 17:04 ` Mark Friedenbach
2014-03-22 19:08 ` Peter Todd
2014-03-23 22:37 ` Troy Benjegerdes
[not found] ` <532DE7E6.4050304@monetize.io>
2014-03-25 12:28 ` [Bitcoin-development] Tree-chains preliminary summary Peter Todd
2014-03-25 12:45 ` Gavin Andresen [this message]
2014-03-25 13:49 ` Peter Todd
2014-03-25 15:20 ` Mike Hearn
2014-03-25 16:47 ` Peter Todd
2014-03-25 17:37 ` Jeff Garzik
2014-03-25 18:02 ` Alan Reiner
2014-03-25 18:13 ` slush
2014-03-25 19:47 ` Peter Todd
2014-03-25 21:41 ` Troy Benjegerdes
2014-03-25 20:40 ` Ricardo Filipe
2014-03-25 22:00 ` Troy Benjegerdes
2014-03-26 10:58 ` Peter Todd
2014-03-25 12:50 ` Peter Todd
2014-03-25 21:03 ` Mark Friedenbach
2014-03-25 22:34 ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-03-27 16:14 ` Jorge Timón
2014-03-28 15:10 ` Troy Benjegerdes
2014-04-17 21:41 ` Tier Nolan
2014-03-26 10:48 ` Peter Todd
2014-08-03 17:23 ` Gregory Sanders
2014-03-24 21:17 ` [Bitcoin-development] Handling miner adoption gracefully for embedded consensus systems via double-spending/replace-by-fee Luke-Jr
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