From: Petr Praus <petr@praus•net>
To: Gregory Maxwell <gmaxwell@gmail•com>
Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists•sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] limits of network hacking/netsplits (was: Discovery/addr packets)
Date: Mon, 6 May 2013 23:48:39 -0500 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CACezXZ-TtHWoBc650kvsWyAuwsz0gmKp58D+x8OkSa9Kue7RDA@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAAS2fgQU5yHFEUfzVwco=L2YKU=Ci0Od+4w59o1wx5UUf1w3VQ@mail.gmail.com>
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I think it's worth noting that quite a large portion of Linux users
probably get the mainline Bitcoin client from the packages. I think Bitcoin
package maintainers are doing mostly a pretty good job :)
On 6 May 2013 18:13, Gregory Maxwell <gmaxwell@gmail•com> wrote:
> On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 3:51 PM, Adam Back <adam@cypherspace•org> wrote:
> > Maybe I could hack a pool to co-opt it into my netsplit and do the work
> for
> > me, or segment enough of the network to have some miners in it, and they
> do
> > the work.
>
> Or you can just let it mine honestly and take the Bitcoins. This is
> fast (doesn't require weeks of them somehow not noticing that they're
> isolated), and yields the values I listed as 'costs' if you would have
> otherwise been able to use it to mine the difficulty down to 1. Cost
> is just as much foregone income from the alternative attack you could
> have done instead.
>
> > nor even topological, nor even
> > particularly long-lived.
>
> At least for attacks that drive the difficulty down it does.
>
> If you want to talk about abusing a pool or creating a partition in
> order to create short reorgs— I agree, those don't have to be long
> lived and you can find many messages where I've written on that
> subject.
>
> It's inconsiderate to propose one attack and when I respond to it
> changing the attack out from under me. :( I would have responded
> entirely differently if you'd proposed people segmenting the network
> and creating short reorgs instead of mining the difficulty down.
>
> > Do you know if there is any downwards limit on difficulty? I know it
> takes
> > going slow for a long and noticeable time, but I am just curious on the
> > theoretical limit.
>
> Every 2016 blocks can at most lower the difficulty by a factor of 4,
> thats where the log4 (number of 2016 groups needed) and 4^n (factor in
> cost reduction for each group) come from in the formulas I gave
> previously.
>
> > I dont see the signatures.
>
>
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/bitcoin-0.8.1/SHA256SUMS.asc/download
>
> The signatures can't be inside the tarball because they sign the tarball.
>
> Seems like the website redesign managed to hide the signatures pretty
> good. They're in the release announcements in any case, but that
> should be fixed. Even when they were prominently placed, practically
> no one checked them. As a result they are mostly security theater in
> practice :(, — so— unfortunately, is SSL: there are many CA's who will
> give anyone a cert with your name on it who can give them a couple
> hundred bucks and MITM HTTP (not HTTPS!) between the CA's
> authentication server and your webserver. Bitcoin.org is hosted by
> github, even if it had SSL and even if the CA infrastructure weren't a
> joke, the number of ways to compromise that hosting enviroment would
> IMO make SSL mostly a false sense of security.
>
> The gpg signatures and gitian downloader signatures provide good
> security if actually used, solving the "getting people to use them"
> problem is an open question.
>
> And I agree, this stuff is a bigger issue than many other things like
> mining the difficulty down.
>
>
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2013-05-07 4:49 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 28+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2013-05-06 14:58 [Bitcoin-development] Discovery/addr packets (was: Service bits for pruned nodes) Mike Hearn
2013-05-06 16:12 ` Peter Todd
2013-05-06 16:20 ` Jeff Garzik
2013-05-06 16:34 ` Mike Hearn
2013-05-06 16:37 ` Peter Todd
2013-05-06 16:47 ` Mike Hearn
2013-05-06 17:19 ` Peter Todd
2013-05-06 17:25 ` Jeff Garzik
2013-05-06 17:42 ` Gregory Maxwell
2013-05-06 17:53 ` Peter Todd
2013-05-06 18:01 ` Gregory Maxwell
2013-05-06 18:19 ` Peter Todd
2013-05-06 18:32 ` Adam Back
2013-05-06 19:08 ` Peter Todd
2013-05-06 19:50 ` Adam Back
2013-05-06 20:43 ` Peter Todd
2013-05-06 23:44 ` Peter Todd
2013-05-07 9:00 ` Mike Hearn
2013-05-09 0:57 ` John Dillon
2013-05-06 18:04 ` Adam Back
2013-05-06 18:25 ` Gregory Maxwell
2013-05-06 22:51 ` [Bitcoin-development] limits of network hacking/netsplits (was: Discovery/addr packets) Adam Back
2013-05-06 23:13 ` Gregory Maxwell
2013-05-07 4:48 ` Petr Praus [this message]
2013-05-07 21:07 ` Matt Corallo
2013-05-07 9:17 ` Mike Hearn
2013-05-07 11:07 ` Adam Back
2013-05-07 12:04 ` Mike Hearn
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