Only if you view bitcoin as no more than a payment network. On Mar 1, 2014 10:24 AM, "Jeff Garzik" wrote: > This is wandering far off-topic for this mailing list. > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:45 PM, Troy Benjegerdes wrote: > >> > You can make the same argument against Bitcoin itself you know... > >> > > >> > A Bitmessage-like network would be trivial to front-run via a sybil > >> > attack. It's the fundemental problem with marketplaces - the data > >> > they're trying to publish has to be public. > >> > >> I don't see the Bitcoin analogy... > >> Anyway, I still don't think the seller cares, if he sells at the price > >> he was asking, what would he care about "front running" those parallel > >> networks. > >> I've seen many street markets without "public information" and they > >> work just well. > > > > The spot price for ammonia fertilizer, refined gasoline at terminals, > > and price of tea in china are not 'public information', yet these are > > some of the largest traded commodities in the world, far exceeding > > the drop in the bucket that all cryptocoin transactions make. > > > > I'd further argue that the *actual* price of corn (cash bid price at > > elevators and ethanol plants) is not public information either. There > > is a great deal of money traded in collecting and then distributing the > > 'cleared price' information. Have a look at > > > http://www.interquote.com/template.cfm?navgroup=aboutlist&urlcode=12&view=1 > > > > > >> >> I don't think this will be a tragedy, because like we discussed on > >> >> IRC, I don't think the primary goal of markets is price discovery, > but > >> >> trade itself. > >> >> > >> >> About historic data, the actual trades are always public, and some > >> >> kind of "archivers" could collect and maintain old orders for > historic > >> >> bid and asks, etc. > >> > > >> > And again, how do you know that record is honest? Fact is without > >> > proof-of-publication you just don't. > >> > >> Well, the trades that appeared in the chain actually occurred. > >> Buying to yourself at fake prices? Be careful, the miner could just > >> separate the order and fill it himself. Or anyone paying a higher fee, > >> for that matter. > > > > You just made my long-term strategic argument for investing in my own > > mining hardware so I can be sure to trade reliably. > > > >> Again, you haven't addressed why the seller cares more about "accurate > >> historic market data" than just his own fees and sell. > >> > >> > You mean a reverse nLockTime that makes a transaction invalid after a > >> > certain amount of time - that's dangerous in a reorg unfortunately as > it > >> > can make transactions permenantly invalid. > > > > People who take money from buyers and sellers care most about 'accurate > > historic market data'. I just want to exchange my corn for e85, > fertilizer, > > and electricity, and audit the code that runs accounting for the > exchange. > > > > I really don't give a shit if there is 'accurate historic market data' as > > long as **MY** personal trade data is accurate and I got a good enough > price, > > and I know who I'm dealing with. > > > > I know someone smarter than me and with more money, market leverage, and > > political connections **WILL** game the system and distort the market > data > > history so they can take more money from buyers and sellers without > actually > > doing some usefull market function. > > > > As long as use buyers and sellers can see the code, and have a good eye > for > > knowing when someone's pushing the market around, we can just put our > orders > > in and relieve some speculators of their money. > > > > Just get me working code for cross-chain trades, and we'll work on the > > accurate historic data problem later. > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Troy Benjegerdes 'da hozer' > hozer@hozed.org > > 7 elements earth::water::air::fire::mind::spirit::soul > grid.coop > > > > Never pick a fight with someone who buys ink by the barrel, > > nor try buy a hacker who makes money by the megahash > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Flow-based real-time traffic analytics software. Cisco certified tool. > > Monitor traffic, SLAs, QoS, Medianet, WAAS etc. with NetFlow Analyzer > > Customize your own dashboards, set traffic alerts and generate reports. > > Network behavioral analysis & security monitoring. All-in-one tool. > > > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=126839071&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > > _______________________________________________ > > Bitcoin-development mailing list > > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development > > > > -- > Jeff Garzik > Bitcoin core developer and open source evangelist > BitPay, Inc. https://bitpay.com/ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Flow-based real-time traffic analytics software. Cisco certified tool. > Monitor traffic, SLAs, QoS, Medianet, WAAS etc. with NetFlow Analyzer > Customize your own dashboards, set traffic alerts and generate reports. > Network behavioral analysis & security monitoring. All-in-one tool. > > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=126839071&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > _______________________________________________ > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development >