* [Bitcoin-development] Scaling at the end user level
@ 2012-02-08 5:18 grarpamp
2012-02-08 7:21 ` grarpamp
2012-02-08 8:34 ` Wladimir
0 siblings, 2 replies; 4+ messages in thread
From: grarpamp @ 2012-02-08 5:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: bitcoin-development
A freshly deployed client on an old p4 has been idly crunching away
at building and verifying the initial chain for about a week now. It
should be done in a day or two. This seems rather untenable for
new users. Have any groups published proposals for distributing
a weekly precomputed bootstrap chain?
rsync? db_dump > git > db_load?
There is also 50% or more compression available in the index
and chain.
Of some known future issues... raw transaction rate, the eventual pay
(or extort?, depending on how megapools pan out) to process mining
environment, and scaling the client count itself... this one appears to
be already present.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
* Re: [Bitcoin-development] Scaling at the end user level
2012-02-08 5:18 [Bitcoin-development] Scaling at the end user level grarpamp
@ 2012-02-08 7:21 ` grarpamp
2012-02-08 8:34 ` Wladimir
1 sibling, 0 replies; 4+ messages in thread
From: grarpamp @ 2012-02-08 7:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: bitcoin-development
> I never did track down this exact issue but it's an artificial
> slowdown.. meaning compression and whatever else wouldn't help much.
I meant for anyone who wanted to distribute the dataset as a project.
> It has something to do with the database file locking and flushing..
> on some systems I've seen the block chain get fully done in 10-20
> mins and on others it slows down to the point where it will never
> catch up.. but not in a way that's related to the age of the computer
> or anything. You might want to experiment if you want to track this
> down.. try building your own libs
Rather than use dated/modified packages, I compiled current versions
of all component sources manually.
> and compare different operating
> systems, on the same hardware to get a more 'true' comparison maybe.
True. Used them all before, happy with BSD for now. Just knowing
what the general setup is on those zippy systems should suffice.
ie: blindly fishing for such a zippy system to compare through various
install tests doesn't sound too appealing. It's different than benchmarking.
Datapoint: The system below is not zippy.
> I think everyone is vaguely aware of the problem but it has not
> been tracked down and eliminated. I don't think the problem is
> within bitcoin itself but in how truthfully the database file is
> actually written to disk.
Am I correct in guessing that, given a certain height, the data
in blkindex and blk0001 should be the same across instances?
# file blk*
blk0001.dat: data
blkindex.dat: Berkeley DB (Btree, version 9, native byte-order)
Pursuant to comparison, what is the format of blk0001.dat?
> If it really gets flushed to disk every
> block like bitcoin wants it to be, then there is no way that you
> could get more than 50-60 blocks per second through it (due to
> rotational latency), but on some operating systems and versions/options
> it seems to end up caching the writes and flies through it at
> thousands of blocks per second. The problem is similar to what's
> mentioned here: http://www.sqlite.org/faq.html#q19
I'm not running Linux with asynchronous data and metadata
turned on by default if that's what you mean :) ZFS, disk crypto,
standard drive write cache. Looking at it, I'm largely buried in
that crypto at 8MB/sec or so.
> Perhaps it's as simple as some default in the db lib.. and it seems
> to default to different things on different version/operating
> systems/filesystems.
Hmm, I compiled everything with the defaults. Will go back and
look at bdb options. I don't think there was anything interesting
there. I'd bet a lot is tied to the fs and cpu.
Single core p4@1•8 512k/2g isn't much up against ZFS+disk crypto.
It seems to take its time and roll up all but the last database file (of
a hundred or more) on receiving sigterm. Is it supposed to roll
and delete the last log too? Can I safely delete everything but
the blk* files? (wallet excepted of course :)
Currently, in KiB...
running:
853716 database
747881 blk0001.dat
290601 blkindex.dat
4361 addr.dat
137 __db.005
137 __db.004
137 __db.003
137 __db.002
41 __db.006
25 __db.001
sigterm:
750569 blk0001.dat
291497 blkindex.dat
8465 database/log.0000000nnn
4361 addr.dat
database/log.0000000133: Berkeley DB (Log, version 16, native byte-order)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
* Re: [Bitcoin-development] Scaling at the end user level
2012-02-08 5:18 [Bitcoin-development] Scaling at the end user level grarpamp
2012-02-08 7:21 ` grarpamp
@ 2012-02-08 8:34 ` Wladimir
2012-02-08 19:32 ` grarpamp
1 sibling, 1 reply; 4+ messages in thread
From: Wladimir @ 2012-02-08 8:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: grarpamp; +Cc: bitcoin-development
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On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 6:18 AM, grarpamp <grarpamp@gmail•com> wrote:
> A freshly deployed client on an old p4 has been idly crunching away
> at building and verifying the initial chain for about a week now. It
> should be done in a day or two. This seems rather untenable for
> new users. Have any groups published proposals for distributing
> a weekly precomputed bootstrap chain?
> rsync? db_dump > git > db_load?
> There is also 50% or more compression available in the index
> and chain.
>
I have proposed packaging part of the block chain (doesn't even have to be
weekly, just until the last checkpoint), but people fear it runs contrary
to the distributed approach of Bitcoin.
Which is kind of true:
- If it is imported un-validated, you have to rely on the packager to lie
to you (insert false transactions etc)
- If it has to be validated, you win nothing, your computer has to crunch
for days anyway
BTW: On such an old computer you should probably use one of the thin
clients.
Wladimir
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
* Re: [Bitcoin-development] Scaling at the end user level
2012-02-08 8:34 ` Wladimir
@ 2012-02-08 19:32 ` grarpamp
0 siblings, 0 replies; 4+ messages in thread
From: grarpamp @ 2012-02-08 19:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: bitcoin-development
>> Have any groups published proposals for distributing
>> a weekly precomputed bootstrap chain?
>> rsync? db_dump > git > db_load?
>> There is also 50% or more compression available in the index
>> and chain.
> I have proposed packaging part of the block chain (doesn't even have to be
> weekly, just until the last checkpoint), but people fear it runs contrary to
> the distributed approach of Bitcoin.
Git repos are backed by strong hashes. Each commit could be a single
block dump, perhaps into a file hierarchy. Trusted entities, pools, etc
could sign at a checkpoint/height. Blockchain tools
would need made that can take the blk* and export single blocks and
process/export up to a certain block and quit. Everyone would do a
comparison and sign a commit hash. Everyone else git pulls. Having
the block toolset is a key prequisite to any sort of distribution. They don't
exist now :( Maybe the two bitcoin compatible library projects out there
will implement them :) Torrents are also strongly hashed and could be
signed as well.
Making the blockchain tools would be the most important thing to start.
> BTW: On such an old computer you should probably use one of the thin
> clients.
If that means not validating the chain, then it's as above. I'm not sure if it's
right to not care about the history if only making new transactions with a new
key post install time and then only validating new transactions as they come
in. Will have a look.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
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2012-02-08 5:18 [Bitcoin-development] Scaling at the end user level grarpamp
2012-02-08 7:21 ` grarpamp
2012-02-08 8:34 ` Wladimir
2012-02-08 19:32 ` grarpamp
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