On Sun, Apr 27, 2025 at 12:47 PM Saint Wenhao wrote: > What about introducing demurrage in testnet5 consensus rules? > In general it seems desirable for a testnet to be as close as possible to mainnet's rules. Demurrage might be asking a bit much in terms of deviation. I'd suggest simply disabling the halving logic and making it a perpetual 50 TBTC issuance. At that rate, it would still take ~8 years or so to surpass the 21M limit and I'd think that testnets should be reset more frequently than that. > > Testnet coins were supposed to be worthless. But it failed in both > testnet3 and testnet4. In the meanwhile, signet was introduced, to make a > more stable test network. However, signing blocks was listed on wiki page > https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Prohibited_changes as something, that "Require > unanimous consent". And, as the history can tell us, people still wanted to > test mining anyway, which is why testnet3 and testnet4 have much more > chainwork than signet (and when it comes to signet, sending > signed-but-unmined blocks to the miners was never implemented, so they had > no chance to provide more hashing power). > > Another kind of change on the list, that would require consent, was > increasing the total number of coins beyond 21 million. But then, testing > supply limits would be harder, and it could cause integer overflows in some > cases. But: in all test networks, including testnet3, testnet4, and signet, > there was never a problem of "not enough coins for miners", so that change > probably wouldn't solve any problems (and seeing it in action would take > years anyway; testnet4 is still far from the first halving, and it is > traded anyway, so that change won't fix it). > > Then, we have the third option, which was not yet tried in test networks: > demurrage. There are two main options: burning coins, or re-assigning them > to someone else. To make a soft-fork out of it, re-assigning would be > backward-incompatible, so it is probably easier to just implement burning, > and just treat all coins older than N blocks in the same way, as OP_RETURN, > by simply invalidating transactions spending them on consensus level. > > Also, when it comes to maintaining testnet nodes, if it would be possible > to automatically remove things from the UTXO set, then it would make > Initial Blockchain Download easier, just because new nodes wouldn't need to > synchronize everything, if old coins would be automatically invalidated. In > practice, all nodes could be just running in pruned mode all the time, and > everything beyond the pruning point, could be simply ignored on consensus > level (which would also prevent the UTXO set from exploding). And then, if > we would keep for example the last 2,016 blocks, then the whole chain would > never take more than 2016 * 4 MB = 8.064 GB of storage, and that's all we > would need to send during Initial Blockchain Download to other nodes. > > poniedziałek, 31 marca 2025 o 22:50:27 UTC+2 Antoine Poinsot napisał(a): > >> Good point on not having the flag day on a holiday. One or two weeks >> sounds good to me. >> >> >> >> >> On Monday, March 24th, 2025 at 8:25 AM, Murch wrote: >> >> > >> > >> > Errr, I wrote the same date as you, but I meant a week later, >> 2026-01-08 >> > instead. >> > >> > -Murch >> > >> > On 2025-03-21 14:20, Murch wrote: >> > >> > > Hey Antoine and everyone, >> > > >> > > What you suggest makes sense to me. Since the 20-minute difficulty >> > > exception is now exploited perpetually, it doesn’t serve its intended >> > > purpose of allowing developers to mine themselves a few coins easily >> or >> > > confirm their own non-standard transactions. In that case, it would >> be >> > > better to not have it at all. >> > > >> > > On 2025-03-18 07:29, 'Antoine Poinsot' via Bitcoin Development >> Mailing >> > > List wrote: >> > > >> > > > I propose to fix this by removing the difficulty reset rule from >> > > > testnet4 through a flag day hard fork on 2026-01-01. >> > > >> > > I would suggest to pick a date that’s not a holiday in many places to >> > > avoid disrupting people’s holiday, how about 2026-01-01 instead? >> > > >> > > Cheers, >> > > Murch >> > >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >> an email to bitcoindev+...@googlegroups.com. >> > To view this discussion visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7c6800f0-7b77-4aca-a4f9-2506a2410b29%40murch.one. >> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/672cb527-9005-46fc-be2c-4508d39cfd7dn%40googlegroups.com > > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. 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