From: Tier Nolan <tier.nolan@gmail•com>
To: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists•sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Distributing low POW headers
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2013 21:07:34 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAE-z3OVTyR1cn31kHJWd=ZUQCwcgX8UdSeZsTMRTeDuDLctz3w@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAPaL=UVc0CGvvam0tdxw+4Y8XwSw0Awz8ifv64HYgORJ7zLztg@mail.gmail.com>
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4020 bytes --]
On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 7:42 PM, John Dillon
<john.dillon892@googlemail•com>wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
>
> On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 11:55 AM, Tier Nolan <tier.nolan@gmail•com> wrote:
> > Distributing headers with 1/64 of the standard POW means that a header
> would
> > be broadcast approximately once every 9 seconds (assuming a 10 minute
> block
> > time). This was picked because sending 80 byte headers every 9 seconds
> > shouldn't represent much load on the network.
>
> As Peter said, "much" should be quantified.
>
It has the same statistic properties as normal blocks just 64 times faster.
Even if there is a new block 30 seconds after the previous one, that
doesn't cause a burst of 64 low POW block headers in the 30 second window.
They are all statistically independent hashing attempts.
> Sounds like you are changing economics and requiring miners to have even
> better
> network connections. This is not a thing to do lightly and it probably a
> bad
> idea.
>
No, it just breaks ties. In most cases there would be only 1 contender
block, so all miners are equal.
If 10% of blocks were ties/orphans, then only 1% of blocks would be a 3-way
tie. That probably overestimates the orphan rate.
This means the miner has to download 2 blocks 10% of the time and 3 blocks
1% of the time.
However, even then, half the network wouldn't have to download the 2nd
block of the tie, since they happened to get the winner first. This means
5% extra bandwidth on average.
16 low POW headers at 9 seconds per header is more than 2 minutes for a
miner to switch to the other contender.
A miner would only lose out if he doesn't notice that block he is mining
against is not getting built on by anyone else.
He needs to download both tied blocks so that he can switch, but he has 2
minutes to actually switch.
I understand Pieter Wuille is working on letting Bitcoin propagate and make
> use
> of pure block headers, a step towards SPV and partial UTXO mode.
>
That would need to happen before low POW ones are broadcast. There is a
basic set of rules in the first post.
At the moment, the client only provides headers when asked, but never
broadcasts them.
> Orphan measurement would be very useful for a lot of reasons, how about you
> think about that first?
I think distributing the low POW headers on an advisory basis a reasonable
first step. However, just broadcasting the headers is a zeroth step.
Miners would probably break ties towards the block that seems to be getting
the most hashing anyway.
I think for orphan rate, the best is to have a system to link to orphans.
This would add the POW of the orphan to the main chain's total.
Unfortunately adding fields to the header is hard. It could be done as a
coinbase extra-nonce thing. A better option would be if the merkle tree
could include non-transactions.
The merkle root could be replaced by hash(auxiliary header). This has the
advantage of not impacting ASIC miners.
Broadcasting all headers would at least allow clients to count orphans,
even if they aren't integrated into the block chain.
It wouldn't have the potential data rate issues either
> and should be a very simple change.
I don't think the data rate is really that high. It would be 80 bytes
every 9 seconds, or 9 bytes per second.
Blocks are 500kB every 10 minutes, or 853 bytes per second.
> Just set some threshold relative to the
> height of the best block where you will not further propagate and orphan
> block(header) and prior to that limit do so freely. I believe the change
> would
> be 100% compatible with the P2P protocol as it is based on inventories.
>
Right absolutely. Headers of blocks that add to the block tree within
recent history should be forwarded.
The inv system would need to be tweaked, since it can only say block and
transaction.
A block header field would allow the node to say that it only has the
header. Alternatively, it would reply with a header message to the
getblocks message.
[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 5673 bytes --]
prev parent reply other threads:[~2013-07-28 20:07 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 5+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2013-07-23 11:27 Tier Nolan
2013-07-24 9:42 ` Peter Todd
2013-07-24 11:55 ` Tier Nolan
2013-07-28 18:42 ` John Dillon
2013-07-28 20:07 ` Tier Nolan [this message]
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to='CAE-z3OVTyR1cn31kHJWd=ZUQCwcgX8UdSeZsTMRTeDuDLctz3w@mail.gmail.com' \
--to=tier.nolan@gmail$(echo .)com \
--cc=bitcoin-development@lists$(echo .)sourceforge.net \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox