From: Nagaev Boris <bnagaev@gmail•com>
To: "David A. Harding" <dave@dtrt•org>
Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Scaling Lightning Safely With Feerate-Dependent Timelocks
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2023 00:20:37 -0300 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAFC_Vt5iEvCMgUGAEgSYdd2CByR3Q3M=9tf8Uz7TK1oCPHXRvA@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <7b210ceabf8f5f4b58b2f6b68e6a7037@dtrt.org>
On Sat, Dec 30, 2023 at 12:11 AM David A. Harding <dave@dtrt•org> wrote:
>
> On 2023-12-29 15:17, Nagaev Boris wrote:
> > Feerate-Dependent Timelocks do create incentives to accept out-of-band
> > fees to decrease in-band fees and speed up mining of transactions
> > using FDT! Miners can make a 5% discount on fees paid out-of-band and
> > many people will use it. Observed fees decrease and FDT transactions
> > mature faster. It is beneficial for both parties involved: senders of
> > transactions save 5% on fees, miners get FDT transactions mined faster
> > and get more profits (for the sake of example more than 5%).
>
> Hi Nagaev,
>
> That's an interesting idea, but I don't think that it works due to the
> free rider problem: miner Alice offers a 5% discount on fees paid out of
> band now in the hopes of collecting more than 5% in extra fees later due
> to increased urgency from users that depended on FDTs. However,
> sometimes the person who actually collects extra fees is miner Bob who
> never offered a 5% discount. By not offering a discount, Bob earns more
> money on average per block than Alice (all other things being equal),
> eventually forcing her to stop offering the discount or to leave the
> market.
>
> Additionally, if nearly everyone was paying discounted fees out of band,
> participants in contract protocols using FDTs would know to use
> proportionally higher FDT amounts (e.g. 5% over their actual desired
> fee), negating the benefit to miners of offering discounted fees.
>
> -Dave
Good points. It makes sense!
--
Best regards,
Boris Nagaev
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2023-12-30 3:21 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 13+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2023-12-14 17:07 jlspc
2023-12-17 23:01 ` Antoine Riard
2023-12-22 1:25 ` jlspc
2023-12-23 4:09 ` Eric Voskuil
2023-12-28 18:19 ` jlspc
2023-12-28 18:42 ` Eric Voskuil
2023-12-30 0:37 ` David A. Harding
2023-12-30 1:17 ` Nagaev Boris
2023-12-30 3:11 ` David A. Harding
2023-12-30 3:20 ` Nagaev Boris [this message]
2023-12-22 16:36 ` Nagaev Boris
2023-12-28 18:06 ` jlspc
2023-12-29 18:11 ` David A. Harding
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