Does an unlimited blocksize imply the lack of a fee market? Isn't every miner able to set their minimum accepted fee or transaction acceptance algorithm? On Jul 29, 2015 5:54 PM, "s7r via bitcoin-dev" < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > We could care less about you selling your bitcoins or moving to > something else. > > What we care more is keeping bitcoin a successful project which offers > clear benefits to the world. I agree a fee market is good and needed, > and transactions shouldn't be free ever, but users should also be able > to transact fast and relatively cheap, as opposite to the competition, > or at least with the same costs, so people won't move to something else. > > The more people use bitcoin, the more demand we have on the market for > BTC, the higher BTC/FIAT rate will be, more people will become > interested in mining and so on. Bitcoin is not a rich-only-private-club, > it's an open, global, decentralized payment network. The less people use > it... I guess you figured it out. > > So we could care less that you will go away in case the fee market won't > become absurd or too expensive to use for most users. Having some > offchain solution for small transactions would be a good idea, but this > doesn't mean we should make small transactions impossible due to absurd > fees. > > On 7/29/2015 8:47 PM, Raystonn . via bitcoin-dev wrote: > >> When a category of users would get priced out because of the fee > > market, they would be free to use any altcoin they want. > > > > I believe that pretty well sums up where we’re headed if transaction > > rate is artificially limited, whether that be by maximum block size > > limit or something else. A fee market will necessarily include more > > than just Bitcoin. The reality is it’s very easy to trade value across > > different blockchains, and thus a fee market will bleed value from > > Bitcoin and give it to alternative blockchains. If Bitcoin’s blocks are > > at maximum capacity, people will exchange for something that allows them > > to transact with a lesser fee, then make the desired payment. This adds > > value to the alternative blockchain and removes it from Bitcoin. > > > > Anyone thinking the fee market can be restrained to Bitcoin alone is > > mistaken. > > > > > > *From:* Vali Zero via bitcoin-dev > > > > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 29, 2015 7:09 AM > > *To:* bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > > > > *Subject:* [bitcoin-dev] Răspuns: Personal opinion on the fee market > > from a worried local trader > > > > I am disappointed that you did not understand my point of view. Let me > > rephrase it for you, > > > > People tipping, buying 0.99$ products and gamblers that need Bitcoin > > transactions *more* than the rest of the people will afford the fees > > that establish the equilibrium between demand and supply of Bitcoin > > transactions. The people are free to use they money for whatever they > > like, but you should understand that Bitcoin transactions are not free. > > > > I was merely attempting to point out that spammers and gamblers would be > > the first ones that would go away. They would be free to spam or gamble, > > but they would have to pay for it. > > > > When a category of users would get priced out because of the fee market, > > they would be free to use any altcoin they want. > > > > Please understand that not everyone will leave. The more important > > players will remain, those that need it the most. The other players are > > free to use whatever altcoin they wish. > > > > > > În Miercuri, 29 Iulie 2015 16:47:57, Angel Leon a > > scris: > > > > > > "the gamblers and perhaps people transacting very low amounts. The > > people that actually need Bitcoin would remain." > > > > so people tipping, buying $0.99 products, and gamblers actually don't > > need Bitcoin. > > Who are you to say what people need to use money for? > > This statement goes against the freedom of decentralization and > > financial freedom Bitcoin should be able to provide. > > > > It's an open network and it will be used as most users see fit, and that > > requires a blocksize increase wether you like it or not, it's simple > > physics, other time wait times will become unbearable for those not > > willing to pay the high fees, if people leave, then it only mean > > bitcoins isn't useful, and if bitcoin isn't useful, it's worthless. > > > > > > > > http://twitter.com/gubatron > > > > On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 9:27 AM, Vali Zero via bitcoin-dev > > > > wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > I have been reading an argument saying that paying higher fees would > > scare Bitcoin users and they would stop using it, preferring bank > > transfers or other payment methods. This does not make sense for me. > > If some users leave, then demand for bitcoin transactions goes down > > and so do the fees. The others remain. > > > > Fee market means that an equilibrium is found between the demand for > > bitcoin transactions and the available supply (given by the block > > size). The fee is the price that finds this equilibrium. > > > > If a fee market starts to exist, the first ones to leave are the > > spammers, probably followed by the gamblers and perhaps people > > transacting very low amounts. The people that actually need Bitcoin > > would remain. > > > > Please allow this fee market to form... > > > > In the absence of a functioning fee market, I will refuse to run > > Bitcoin code that increases the block size and will do my best to > > tell everyone I know not to upgrade towards running such code. If > > Bitcoin succombs to the free stuff army, I will sell all the coins > > and leave. Nothing is for free. > > > > I apologize for any exagerations, but I just felt strongly towards > > expressing my opinion here. I'm only a local Bitcoin trader, > > computer engineer, with a reasonable understanding of free markets. > > And I'm running only one full node. > > > > Kind regards, > > Valentin > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > bitcoin-dev mailing list > > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > > > > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > > > > > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev >