From: Michael Folkson <michaelfolkson@gmail•com>
To: "James O'Beirne" <james.obeirne@gmail•com>
Cc: Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] CTV + CSFS: a letter
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2025 15:51:15 +0300 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAFvNmHRvjbo0OCFa3edCERXRFsz6yiAAPgzWrX5YxdtR9a4GiA@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <a86c2737-db79-4f54-9c1d-51beeb765163n@googlegroups.com>
Hi James
I'm losing track of where I haven't been blocked and am free to ask
questions. You've personally blocked me on X so I can't ask there and
I'm not sure what my current status is on the Core GitHub repo,
Delving Bitcoin, this mailing list. Perhaps if you're going to be
leading this attempt to move towards an activation attempt of a
consensus rule change there can be a forum set up where those who
would like to ask questions and/or have some default skepticism aren't
heavily censored or blocked. Or perhaps this is such a forum, I don't
know.
I've tried to follow your personal journey (despite you making it hard
by blocking me) on this let alone the entire community's journey on
this.
It seems like until recently (May 2025) you were a proponent of BIP
345 (OP_VAULT) and have argued that that should be activated in the
past. On Delving [0] in May 2025 you stated:
"OP_VAULT (BIP-345) has been essentially replaced by @salvatoshi’s
OP_CHECKCONTRACTVERIFY (CCV)"
Having read that I assumed you would be working on CCV so I'm quite
surprised that a month later you're now proposing that CTV and CSFS be
prepared for activation.
What is the current status of CCV? Why aren't you working towards CCV
being activated and why should CTV and CSFS be activated prior to CCV?
I'm finding it a little bewildering just trying to follow your
personal views on this and I suspect those who you are asking to
prioritize the review of CTV and CSFS in the Core repo in the next 6
months might be in a similar boat. If your view is changing month to
month have you finally settled on CTV and CSFS should definitely be
activated or might your view change again in the near future (e.g. the
addition of CCV or some other variation)? In my opinion to convince
the broader community these should be activated imminently probably
requires James to be consistently convinced from month to month.
Thanks
Michael
[0]: https://delvingbitcoin.org/t/withdrawing-op-vault-bip-345/1670
On Mon, Jun 9, 2025 at 2:54 PM James O'Beirne <james.obeirne@gmail•com> wrote:
>
> Good morning,
>
> A letter has been published advocating for the final review and
> activation of OP_CHECKTEMPLATEVERIFY (BIP-119) and OP_CHECKSIGFROMSTACK
> (BIP-348).
>
> The full text of the letter can be found at https://ctv-csfs.com. It is
> reproduced below.
>
> ---
>
> To the technical bitcoin community,
>
> We believe that the best next step for bitcoin would be to activate
> OP_CHECKTEMPLATEVERIFY (CTV, BIP-119) and OP_CHECKSIGFROMSTACK (CSFS,
> BIP-348). These opcodes enable functionality for a broad set of uses
> that will allow bitcoin to preserve and expand its role as a scarce,
> censorship-resistant store of value.
>
> While there are a few promising proposals to improve bitcoin at the
> consensus layer which may someday be deployed, we believe that CTV and
> CSFS are uniquely well reviewed, simple, and have been proven to be both
> safe and widely demanded.
>
> CTV was first formalized in BIP-119 over 5 years ago. Despite many
> attempts at refinement or replacement, it has remained the most widely
> preferred method for enforcing pregenerated transaction sequences using
> consensus. It unlocks valuable functionality for scaling solutions,
> vaults, congestion control, non-custodial mining, discreet log
> contracts, and more.
>
> CSFS is a primitive opcode that has been deployed to Blockstream’s
> Elements for at least 8 years. It represents no significant
> computational burden over bitcoin’s most often used opcode, OP_CHECKSIG.
> It can be combined with CTV to implement ln-symmetry, a longstanding
> improvement to Lightning. It also unlocks a variety of other use cases.
>
> We respectfully ask Bitcoin Core contributors to prioritize the review
> and integration of CTV (PR #31989 or similar) and CSFS (PR #32247 or
> similar) within the next six months. We believe this timeline allows for
> rigorous final review and activation planning.
>
> This request isn't meant to suggest that these contributors dictate the
> consensus process, but rather it is an acknowledgement that before these
> opcodes can be activated, they must be implemented in the most widely
> used bitcoin client.
>
> As application and protocol developers, we are convinced of the
> significant benefits that these changes would bring to end users of
> bitcoin – even if only considering their use for layer 1 security and
> layer 2 scaling solutions. We are optimistic that given the limited size
> and scope of these changes in both concept and implementation, they
> represent a realistic next step in the continuing and important work of
> preserving bitcoin's unique promise.
>
> Signed,
>
> Abdel (Starkware)
> Andrew Poelstra (@apoelstra)
> Ben Carman (@benthecarman)
> Ben Kaufman (@ben-kaufman)
> Brandon Black (@reardencode)
> Brian Langel (for Five Bells)
> Buck Perley (@puckberley)
> Calle (Cashu)
> Calvin Kim (@kcalvinalvin)
> Chun Wang (f2pool)
> Christian Decker (@cdecker)
> Coinjoined Chris (Bitsurance.eu)
> Evan Kaloudis (for Zeus)
> fiatjaf (@fiatjaf)
> Floppy (@1440000bytes)
> Gary Krause (@average-gary)
> Harsha Goli (@arshbot)
> Hunter Beast (@cryptoquick)
> Jad Mubaslat (@champbronc2)
> James O’Beirne (@jamesob)
> Jameson Lopp (@jlopp)
> Johan Halseth (@halseth)
> Luke Childs (@lukechilds)
> Matt Black (for Atomic Finance)
> Michael Tidwell (@miketwenty1)
> Nick Hansen (for Luxor Mining)
> Nitesh (@nitesh_btc)
> nvk (@nvk)
> Owen Kemeys (for Foundation)
> Paul Sztorc (@psztorc)
> Portland.HODL (for MARA Pool)
> Rijndael (@rot13maxi)
> Rob Hamilton (@rob1ham)
> Robin Linus (@RobinLinus)
> Sanket Kanjalkar (@sanket1729)
> Sean Ryan (Anchorage)
> Seth for Privacy (for Cake Wallet)
> Simanta Gautam (Alpen Labs)
> Steven Roose (@stevenroose)
> stutxo (@stutxo)
> Talip (@otaliptus)
> mononaut (@mononautical)
> vnprc (@vnprc)
>
> --
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--
Michael Folkson
Personal email: michaelfolkson@gmail•com
--
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2025-06-09 14:29 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 13+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2025-06-09 11:40 James O'Beirne
2025-06-09 12:51 ` Michael Folkson [this message]
2025-06-09 14:41 ` James O'Beirne
2025-06-09 15:56 ` Michael Folkson
2025-06-09 13:51 ` Matt Corallo
2025-06-09 14:43 ` James O'Beirne
2025-06-09 17:51 ` Matt Corallo
2025-06-09 19:27 ` /dev /fd0
2025-06-09 21:12 ` Matt Corallo
2025-06-09 18:55 ` 'Antoine Poinsot' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
2025-06-10 2:02 ` Paul Sztorc
2025-06-09 23:02 ` Andrew Poelstra
2025-06-10 2:08 ` David A. Harding
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