Re: [bitcoin-dev] A Modified Version of Luke-jr's Block Size BIP

From: "t. khan" <teekhan42@gmail•com>
To: alp alp <alp.bitcoin@gmail•com>
Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] A Modified Version of Luke-jr's Block Size BIP
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2017 14:53:15 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAGCNRJq3sj5Y2PHPc=Ckrpn0RGBj=OyoU3+e-1p-19znE=RnVg@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAMBsKS_JKNJFLB_ao8-dcWgWB8o5bGLbNPrPtvSmobrryZVEmQ@mail.gmail.com>

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Even ignoring the obvious flaws of that poll, Andrew is still correct: you
cannot reach 100% consensus. It's statistically impossible in any large
group.

Only the majority needs to consent, though what is considered a majority
varies depending on the context (95%, 75%, 51%). Nowhere does it say
"everyone needs to agree".

On Wed, Feb 8, 2017 at 1:16 PM, alp alp <alp.bitcoin@gmail•com> wrote:

> Doing nothing is the rules we all agreed to.  If those rules are to be
> changed,nearly everyone will need to consent.  The same rule applies to the
> cap, we all agreed to 21m, and if someone wants to change that, nearly
> everyone would need to agree.
>
>
> On Feb 8, 2017 10:28 AM, "Andrew Johnson" <andrew.johnson83@gmail•com>
> wrote:
>
> It is when you're talking about making a choice and 6.3x more people
> prefer something else. Doing nothing is a choice as well.
>
> Put another way, if 10% supported increasing the 21M coin cap and 63% were
> against, would you seriously consider doing it?
>
> On Feb 8, 2017 9:57 AM, "alp alp" <alp.bitcoin@gmail•com> wrote:
>
>> 10% is not a tiny minority.
>>
>> On Feb 8, 2017 9:51 AM, "Andrew Johnson" <andrew.johnson83@gmail•com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> You're never going to reach 100% agreement, and stifling the network
>>> literally forever to please a tiny minority is daft.
>>>
>>> On Feb 8, 2017 8:52 AM, "alp alp via bitcoin-dev" <
>>> bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> 10% say literally never.  That seems like a significant
>>> disenfranchisement and lack of consensus.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 6, 2017 at 2:25 PM, t. khan via bitcoin-dev <
>>> bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, Feb 6, 2017 at 2:53 PM, Luke Dashjr <luke@dashjr•org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Monday, February 06, 2017 6:19:43 PM you wrote:
>>>>> > >My BIP draft didn't make progress because the community opposes any
>>>>> block
>>>>> > >size increase hardfork ever.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Luke, how do you know the community opposes that? Specifically, how
>>>>> did you
>>>>> > come to this conclusion?
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.strawpoll.me/12228388/r
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That poll shows 63% of votes want a larger than 1 MB block by this
>>>> summer. How do you go from that to "the community opposes any block
>>>> increase ever"? It shows the exact opposite of that.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> > >Your version doesn't address the current block size
>>>>> > >issues (ie, the blocks being too large).
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Why do you think blocks are "too large"? Please cite some evidence.
>>>>> I've
>>>>> > asked this before and you ignored it, but an answer would be helpful
>>>>> to the
>>>>> > discussion.
>>>>>
>>>>> Full node count is far below the safe minimum of 85% of economic
>>>>> activity.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Is this causing a problem now? If so, what?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Typically reasons given for people not using full nodes themselves
>>>>> come down
>>>>> to the high resource requirements caused by the block size.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The reason people stop running nodes is because there's no incentive to
>>>> counteract the resource costs. Attempting to solve this by making blocks
>>>> *smaller* is like curing a disease by killing the patient. (Incentivizing
>>>> full node operation would fix that problem.)
>>>>
>>>> - t.k.
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>

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