Re: [bitcoin-dev] Fees and Accounts

From: James MacWhyte <macwhyte@gmail•com>
To: Marc Larue <marc@rupy•se>,
	 Bitcoin Protocol Discussion
	<bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Fees and Accounts
Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2016 18:33:41 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAH+Axy5jSRVbAw_MaJArYp9_nTB8Ws6QZ5hoq4rfBZw80RciFA@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1608031152530.359@rupy.se>

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From what I've seen, most people build their own account system separately
(including fee management) and just use bitcoind to send, receive, and
verify transactions. It's not meant to be a drop-in solution for running an
entire bitcoin deposit and withdrawal system, it just provides the bare
tools required to build your own. If you need a pre-built solution, there
are companies that provide those types of services as a platform (BitGo,
for example).

On Wed, Aug 3, 2016, 11:25 Marc Larue via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have 2 problems with bitcoind that separately are not a problem but
> together they make the platform unusable for many projects.
>
> If I have accounts I need to make sure the account holders do not
> overcharge their account. To do this I can now use "createrawtransaction()
> + fundrawtransaction() + signrawtransaction()" and then make sure the
> transaction can be paid by an account.
>
> But since you deprecated the accounts and there is no
> sendrawtransactionfrom() method; I either have to build my own account
> system (this is no picknick btw, since you need to track all incoming
> funds to all addresses and having an integrated account system in bitcoind
> is 100% necessary to do this effectively).
>
> Or I might be able to go ahead and speculate that you will not be able to
> untangle the account code and hack my bitcoind to have a sendfrom with a
> fixed fee parameter that overrides the size multiplication and I just do
> the math before I send hoping that the transactions go through (this is
> bad but better than having accounts overcharge because they send dust that
> induce high fees).
>
> I understand the privacy problems with using accounts for off-chain
> microstransactions but currently it's the best workable option.
>
> I hope you understand that I'm not trolling here, I have been mining since
> 2011 on FPGAs and built bitcoinbankbook.com 2 years ago. When I descovered
> that once transactions will require fees (back then they didn't) and that
> your system is not able to handle fees with accounts, I stopped developing
> everything related to bitcoin.
>
> There are probably 100s if not 1000s of developers in the same situation.
>
> You can't just deprecate accounts like that because nobody likes the code.
> Without accounts bitcoind is only a person-to-person manual client.
>
> To build many-to-many automatic "organisations" on top of bitcoind you
> need accounts and you need fees that are predictable.
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> /marc
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