On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 3:12 PM, Damian Gomez wrote: > let me continue my conversation: > > as the development of this transactions would be indiscated > > as a ByteArray of > > > On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 3:11 PM, Damian Gomez wrote: > >> >> Well zombie txns aside, I expect this to be resolved w/ a client side >> implementation using a Merkle-Winternitz OTS in order to prevent the loss >> of fee structure theougth the implementation of a this security hash that >> eill alloow for a one-wya transaction to conitnue, according to the TESLA >> protocol. >> >> We can then tally what is needed to compute tteh number of bit desginated >> for teh completion og the client-side signature if discussin the >> construcitons of a a DH key (instead of the BIP X509 protocol) >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 2:08 PM, < >> bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote: >> >>> Send Bitcoin-development mailing list submissions to >>> bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net >>> >>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development >>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>> bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net >>> >>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>> bitcoin-development-owner@lists.sourceforge.net >>> >>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>> than "Re: Contents of Bitcoin-development digest..." >>> >>> Today's Topics: >>> >>> 1. Re: Block Size Increase (Mark Friedenbach) >>> 2. Softfork signaling improvements (Douglas Roark) >>> 3. Re: Block Size Increase (Mark Friedenbach) >>> 4. Re: Block Size Increase (Raystonn) (Damian Gomez) >>> 5. Re: Block Size Increase (Raystonn) >>> >>> >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>> From: Mark Friedenbach >>> To: Raystonn >>> Cc: Bitcoin Development >>> Date: Fri, 8 May 2015 13:55:30 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Block Size Increase >>> The problems with that are larger than time being unreliable. It is no >>> longer reorg-safe as transactions can expire in the course of a reorg and >>> any transaction built on the now expired transaction is invalidated. >>> >>> On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 1:51 PM, Raystonn wrote: >>> >>>> Replace by fee is what I was referencing. End-users interpret the old >>>> transaction as expired. Hence the nomenclature. An alternative is a new >>>> feature that operates in the reverse of time lock, expiring a transaction >>>> after a specific time. But time is a bit unreliable in the blockchain >>>> >>> >>> >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>> From: Douglas Roark >>> To: Bitcoin Dev >>> Cc: >>> Date: Fri, 8 May 2015 15:27:26 -0400 >>> Subject: [Bitcoin-development] Softfork signaling improvements >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>> Hash: SHA512 >>> >>> Hello. I've seen Greg make a couple of posts online >>> (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1033396.msg11155302#msg11155302 >>> is one such example) where he has mentioned that Pieter has a new >>> proposal for allowing multiple softforks to be deployed at the same >>> time. As discussed in the thread I linked, the idea seems simple >>> enough. Still, I'm curious if the actual proposal has been posted >>> anywhere. I spent a few minutes searching the usual suspects (this >>> mailing list, Reddit, Bitcointalk, IRC logs, BIPs) and can't find >>> anything. >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> - --- >>> Douglas Roark >>> Senior Developer >>> Armory Technologies, Inc. >>> doug@bitcoinarmory.com >>> PGP key ID: 92ADC0D7 >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>> Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.22 (Darwin) >>> Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org >>> >>> iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJVTQ4eAAoJEGybVGGSrcDX8eMQAOQiDA7an+qZBqDfVIwEzY2C >>> SxOVxswwxAyTtZNM/Nm+8MTq77hF8+3j/C3bUbDW6wCu4QxBYA/uiCGTf44dj6WX >>> 7aiXg1o9C4LfPcuUngcMI0H5ixOUxnbqUdmpNdoIvy4did2dVs9fAmOPEoSVUm72 >>> 6dMLGrtlPN0jcLX6pJd12Dy3laKxd0AP72wi6SivH6i8v8rLb940EuBS3hIkuZG0 >>> vnR5MXMIEd0rkWesr8hn6oTs/k8t4zgts7cgIrA7rU3wJq0qaHBa8uASUxwHKDjD >>> KmDwaigvOGN6XqitqokCUlqjoxvwpimCjb3Uv5Pkxn8+dwue9F/IggRXUSuifJRn >>> UEZT2F8fwhiluldz3sRaNtLOpCoKfPC+YYv7kvGySgqagtNJFHoFhbeQM0S3yjRn >>> Ceh1xK9sOjrxw/my0jwpjJkqlhvQtVG15OsNWDzZ+eWa56kghnSgLkFO+T4G6IxB >>> EUOcAYjJkLbg5ssjgyhvDOvGqft+2e4MNlB01e1ZQr4whQH4TdRkd66A4WDNB+0g >>> LBqVhAc2C8L3g046mhZmC33SuOSxxm8shlxZvYLHU2HrnUFg9NkkXi1Ub7agMSck >>> TTkLbMx17AvOXkKH0v1L20kWoWAp9LfRGdD+qnY8svJkaUuVtgDurpcwEk40WwEZ >>> caYBw+8bdLpKZwqbA1DL >>> =ayhE >>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>> From: Mark Friedenbach >>> To: "Raystonn ." >>> Cc: Bitcoin Development >>> Date: Fri, 8 May 2015 13:40:50 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Block Size Increase >>> Transactions don't expire. But if the wallet is online, it can >>> periodically choose to release an already created transaction with a higher >>> fee. This requires replace-by-fee to be sufficiently deployed, however. >>> >>> On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 1:38 PM, Raystonn . wrote: >>> >>>> I have a proposal for wallets such as yours. How about creating all >>>> transactions with an expiration time starting with a low fee, then >>>> replacing with new transactions that have a higher fee as time passes. >>>> Users can pick the fee curve they desire based on the transaction priority >>>> they want to advertise to the network. Users set the priority in the >>>> wallet, and the wallet software translates it to a specific fee curve used >>>> in the series of expiring transactions. In this manner, transactions are >>>> never left hanging for days, and probably not even for hours. >>>> >>>> -Raystonn >>>> On 8 May 2015 1:17 pm, Aaron Voisine wrote: >>>> >>>> As the author of a popular SPV wallet, I wanted to weigh in, in support >>>> of the Gavin's 20Mb block proposal. >>>> >>>> The best argument I've heard against raising the limit is that we need >>>> fee pressure. I agree that fee pressure is the right way to economize on >>>> scarce resources. Placing hard limits on block size however is an >>>> incredibly disruptive way to go about this, and will severely negatively >>>> impact users' experience. >>>> >>>> When users pay too low a fee, they should: >>>> >>>> 1) See immediate failure as they do now with fees that fail to >>>> propagate. >>>> >>>> 2) If the fee lower than it should be but not terminal, they should see >>>> degraded performance, long delays in confirmation, but eventual success. >>>> This will encourage them to pay higher fees in future. >>>> >>>> The worst of all worlds would be to have transactions propagate, hang >>>> in limbo for days, and then fail. This is the most important scenario to >>>> avoid. Increasing the 1Mb block size limit I think is the simplest way to >>>> avoid this least desirable scenario for the immediate future. >>>> >>>> We can play around with improved transaction selection for blocks and >>>> encourage miners to adopt it to discourage low fees and create fee >>>> pressure. These could involve hybrid priority/fee selection so low fee >>>> transactions see degraded performance instead of failure. This would be the >>>> conservative low risk approach. >>>> >>>> Aaron Voisine >>>> co-founder and CEO >>>> breadwallet.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud >>>> Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications >>>> Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights >>>> Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. >>>> http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Bitcoin-development mailing list >>>> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>> From: Damian Gomez >>> To: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net >>> Cc: >>> Date: Fri, 8 May 2015 14:04:10 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Block Size Increase (Raystonn) >>> Hello, >>> >>> I was reading some of the thread but can't say I read the entire thing. >>> >>> I think that it is realistic to cinsider a nlock sixe of 20MB for any >>> block txn to occur. THis is an enormous amount of data (relatively for a >>> netwkrk) in which the avergage rate of 10tps over 10 miniutes would allow >>> for fewasible transformation of data at this curent point in time. >>> >>> Though I do not see what extra hash information would be stored in the >>> overall ecosystem as we begin to describe what the scripts that are >>> atacrhed tp the blockchain would carry, >>> >>> I'd therefore think that for the remainder of this year that it is >>> possible to have a block chain within 200 - 300 bytes that is more >>> charatereistic of some feasible attempts at attaching nuanced data in order >>> to keep propliifc the blockchain but have these identifiers be integral >>> OPSIg of the the entiore block. THe reasoning behind this has to do with >>> encryption standards that can be added toe a chain such as th DH algoritnm >>> keys that would allow for a higher integrity level withinin the system as >>> it is. Cutrent;y tyh prootocl oomnly controls for the amount of >>> transactions through if TxnOut script and the publin key coming form teh >>> lcoation of the proof-of-work. Form this then I think that a rate of higher >>> than then current standard of 92bytes allows for GPUS ie CUDA to perfirm >>> its standard operations of 1216 flops in rde rto mechanize a new >>> personal identity within the chain that also attaches an encrypted instance >>> of a further categorical variable that we can prsribved to it. >>> >>> I think with the current BIP7 prootclol for transactions there is an >>> area of vulnerability for man-in-the-middle attacks upon request of bitcin >>> to any merchant as is. It would contraidct the security of the bitcoin if >>> it was intereceptefd iand not allowed to reach tthe payment network or if >>> the hash was reveresed in orfr to change the value it had. Therefore the >>> current best fit block size today is between 200 - 300 bytws (depending on >>> how exciteed we get) >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks for letting me join the conversation >>> I welcomes any vhalleneged and will reply with more research as i figure >>> out what problems are revealed in my current formation of thoughts (sorry >>> for the errors but i am just trying to move forward ---> THE DELRERT KEY >>> LITERALLY PREVENTS IT ) >>> >>> >>> _Damian >>> >>> >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>> From: Raystonn >>> To: Mark Friedenbach >>> Cc: Bitcoin Development >>> Date: Fri, 8 May 2015 14:01:28 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Block Size Increase >>> >>> Replace by fee is the better approach. It will ultimately replace >>> zombie transactions (due to insufficient fee) with potentially much higher >>> fees as the feature takes hold in wallets throughout the network, and fee >>> competition increases. However, this does not fix the problem of low tps. >>> In fact, as blocks fill it could make the problem worse. This feature >>> means more transactions after all. So I would expect huge fee spikes, or a >>> return to zombie transactions if fee caps are implemented by wallets. >>> >>> -Raystonn >>> On 8 May 2015 1:55 pm, Mark Friedenbach wrote: >>> >>> The problems with that are larger than time being unreliable. It is no >>> longer reorg-safe as transactions can expire in the course of a reorg and >>> any transaction built on the now expired transaction is invalidated. >>> >>> On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 1:51 PM, Raystonn wrote: >>> >>> Replace by fee is what I was referencing. End-users interpret the old >>> transaction as expired. Hence the nomenclature. An alternative is a new >>> feature that operates in the reverse of time lock, expiring a transaction >>> after a specific time. But time is a bit unreliable in the blockchain >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud >>> Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications >>> Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights >>> Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. >>> http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Bitcoin-development mailing list >>> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development >>> >>> >> >