From: Thomas Kerin <thomas.kerin@gmail•com>
To: Mike Hearn <mike@plan99•net>
Cc: Bitcoin Development <bitcoin-development@lists•sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] New BIP32 structure
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 13:12:07 +0000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAHv+tb5gYKEtbwxwwBGWk-M98kGnjGw3ffNQAaLQz=hb8BTaDg@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CANEZrP21X_Uk+_XWN6y2tgiup07Xd12bZZoFfnheG_Lz-ipbPQ@mail.gmail.com>
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Isn't the length of the seed arbitrary anyway? Once decoded using whatever
mnemonic implementation (electrums, or BIP0039) the bytestream is
immediately passed to HMAC-SHA256 to generate the master key. No matter
what your initial entropy is, it would be hashed anyway.
On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 12:49 PM, Mike Hearn <mike@plan99•net> wrote:
> Ah, BIP32 allows for a range of entropy sizes and it so happens that they
> picked 256 bits instead of 128 bits.
>
> I'd have thought that there is a right answer for this. 2^128 should not
> be brute forceable, and longer sizes have a cost in terms of making the
> seeds harder to write down on paper. So should this be a degree of freedom?
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Mike Hearn <mike@plan99•net> wrote:
>
>> By the way, I just noticed that greenaddress.it is creating seeds that
>> have 24 words instead of 12. Does anyone know what's up with that? They
>> claim to be using BIP32 wallets so I wanted to see if they were using the
>> default structure and if so, whether bitcoinj was compatible with it
>> (before I switch to the one discussed here). But it seems we fall at the
>> first hurdle ...
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 1:06 PM, Thomas Voegtlin <thomasv1@gmx•de> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 27/03/2014 12:30, Marek Palatinus a écrit :
>>> > Ah, I forget to two things, which should be into the BIP as well:
>>> >
>>> > a) Gap factor for addresses; as Thomas mentioned, although some
>>> software
>>> > can watch almost unlimited amount of unused addresses, this is serious
>>> > concern for lightweight or server-based wallets like Electrum or
>>> > myTREZOR. myTREZOR currently uses gap factor 10, which is (from my
>>> > experience so far) quite sane for most of users.
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, I was planning to increase the number of available unused addresses
>>> to 10 or 20 in the bip32 version of Electrum.
>>>
>>> Related to this, here is another idea I would like to submit:
>>>
>>> Instead of using a "gap limit" (maximal number of consecutive unused
>>> addresses), I think we should get rid of the topology, and simply count
>>> the number of unused addresses since the beginning of the sequence.
>>> Indeed, the topology of the sequence of addresses is of no interest to
>>> the user. Users often misinterpret "gap limit" as the "number of unused
>>> addresses available", so I think we should just give them what they want
>>> :) This is easier to understand, and it makes things more predictable,
>>> because the wallet will always display the same number of unused
>>> addresses (except when it is waiting for confirmations).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Bitcoin-development mailing list
>>> Bitcoin-development@lists•sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Bitcoin-development@lists•sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
>
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2014-03-27 13:12 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 100+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2014-03-26 20:49 Mike Hearn
2014-03-26 23:37 ` Andreas Schildbach
2014-03-27 1:01 ` Alan Reiner
2014-03-27 6:15 ` Mike Belshe
2014-03-27 10:57 ` Thomas Voegtlin
2014-03-27 11:39 ` Mike Hearn
2014-03-27 13:30 ` Thomas Voegtlin
2014-03-27 13:38 ` Mike Hearn
2014-03-27 1:13 ` Allen Piscitello
2014-03-27 5:34 ` Troy Benjegerdes
2014-03-27 7:09 ` Tamas Blummer
2014-03-27 9:42 ` Mike Hearn
2014-03-27 11:35 ` Pavol Rusnak
2014-03-27 15:43 ` Jeff Garzik
2014-03-27 15:57 ` Allen Piscitello
2014-03-27 16:06 ` Pavol Rusnak
2014-03-27 16:13 ` Allen Piscitello
2014-03-27 16:07 ` Tamas Blummer
2014-03-27 16:14 ` Pieter Wuille
2014-03-27 16:21 ` Pavol Rusnak
2014-03-27 16:28 ` Pieter Wuille
2014-03-27 17:49 ` Allen Piscitello
2014-03-28 14:59 ` slush
2014-04-08 12:43 ` slush
2014-04-08 13:18 ` Pieter Wuille
2014-04-08 13:40 ` slush
2014-04-08 13:43 ` slush
2014-04-08 13:53 ` Pieter Wuille
2014-04-08 13:59 ` Thomas Voegtlin
2014-04-08 14:00 ` Tamas Blummer
2014-04-08 14:35 ` Pavol Rusnak
2014-04-08 15:41 ` slush
2014-04-23 17:42 ` Pieter Wuille
2014-04-23 18:01 ` slush
2014-04-23 18:18 ` slush
2014-04-23 18:39 ` Tier Nolan
2014-04-23 18:46 ` Pavol Rusnak
2014-04-23 19:00 ` Tier Nolan
2014-04-23 19:06 ` slush
2014-04-23 19:36 ` Tamas Blummer
2014-04-23 19:46 ` slush
2014-04-23 19:07 ` Tamas Blummer
2014-04-23 19:29 ` Pavol Rusnak
2014-04-23 19:44 ` Luke-Jr
2014-04-23 19:49 ` Pavol Rusnak
2014-04-23 19:55 ` Luke-Jr
2014-04-23 19:57 ` slush
2014-04-23 20:01 ` Luke-Jr
2014-04-23 20:04 ` Pavol Rusnak
2014-04-23 20:09 ` Luke-Jr
2014-04-23 20:16 ` Pavol Rusnak
2014-04-23 20:32 ` Luke-Jr
2014-04-23 20:35 ` Pavol Rusnak
2014-04-23 20:41 ` Luke-Jr
2014-04-23 20:43 ` Pavol Rusnak
2014-04-23 20:54 ` Pieter Wuille
2014-04-23 21:06 ` Pavol Rusnak
2014-04-23 21:18 ` Luke-Jr
2014-04-23 21:22 ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-04-23 21:33 ` Pavol Rusnak
2014-04-23 21:42 ` Pieter Wuille
2014-04-23 21:44 ` Pavol Rusnak
2014-04-23 21:48 ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-04-23 21:53 ` Luke-Jr
2014-04-23 21:24 ` Pavol Rusnak
2014-04-23 21:07 ` slush
2014-04-23 20:59 ` Luke-Jr
2014-04-23 20:17 ` Tamas Blummer
2014-04-23 20:12 ` Pieter Wuille
2014-04-23 20:08 ` Pieter Wuille
2014-04-23 20:01 ` Tamas Blummer
2014-04-23 20:02 ` Luke-Jr
2014-04-23 20:04 ` Tamas Blummer
2014-04-24 6:54 ` Thomas Voegtlin
2014-04-24 7:10 ` Pieter Wuille
2014-04-24 7:21 ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-04-24 8:15 ` Thomas Voegtlin
2014-04-24 7:42 ` Thomas Voegtlin
2014-04-24 8:09 ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-23 18:48 ` Tamas Blummer
2014-04-08 14:49 ` Andreas Schildbach
2014-04-08 15:46 ` slush
2014-04-08 15:58 ` Andreas Schildbach
2014-04-08 16:24 ` slush
2014-03-27 11:20 ` Thomas Voegtlin
[not found] ` <CAJna-HhmFya+3W67qQt0wMhW=B4vJvwdkr-5WnU+KEaKq7uaUA@mail.gmail.com>
2014-03-27 12:06 ` Thomas Voegtlin
2014-03-27 12:28 ` Mike Hearn
2014-03-27 12:49 ` Mike Hearn
2014-03-27 13:12 ` Thomas Kerin [this message]
2014-03-27 13:19 ` Mike Hearn
2014-03-27 13:49 ` Thomas Voegtlin
2014-03-27 13:58 ` Jim
2014-03-27 14:20 ` Mike Hearn
2014-03-27 15:17 ` Troy Benjegerdes
2014-03-27 13:07 ` Matias Alejo Garcia
2014-03-27 13:44 ` Pavol Rusnak
2014-03-27 13:53 ` Thomas Voegtlin
2014-03-27 14:03 ` Pavol Rusnak
[not found] ` <CAJna-HitjJbL9TnfxTY=+TvfaeNvZM6aPWmNYmHUCwmw6V8PUg@mail.gmail.com>
2014-03-27 15:04 ` Thomas Voegtlin
2014-03-27 11:36 ` Pavol Rusnak
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