Dear LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (& HMRH), a.k.a. "The Australian", This discussion list is serious stuff, please stop making noise. Fungibility is a desirable property, anyway. Thank you! On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 12:04 PM Eric Voskuil via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > > consensus requires the ledger to be honest does not prove that it is > honest. > > > > Actually, that’s exactly what it does. A logical/mathematical requirement > (necessity) is also called a proof. > > > > e > > > > *From:* bitcoin-dev *On > Behalf Of *LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via bitcoin-dev > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 2, 2021 7:06 PM > *To:* M.K. Safi via bitcoin-dev ; > Daniel Edgecumbe > *Subject:* Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK > > > > "Today I spent approximately $5 at a chip shop in North London in cash. > Besides the fact that I have voluntarily chosen to share this information, > it is absolutely no concern of yourself or any other party that this > transaction has occured." > > > > Good Afternoon, > > > > Requiring little argument I concur, privacy allows that you do not have > snoops and researchers following you around looking in your purse as you > transact. For the general public, how much you carry in your purse and > where you get it from is none of their business. However, your employer is > required to report to the government a record of pay, or at least maintain > that record, and the store where you made a purchase similarly to keep > records so that taxes can be paid. From their perspective, you do not need > to know how much they keep in their drawer. Bitcoin directly allows your > purse to be private and for the transaction ledger to take the scrutiny > anyone should be able to apply to prove the ledger is honest. Maintaining > an argument that consensus requires the ledger to be honest does not prove > that it is honest. > > > > KING JAMES HRMH > > Great British Empire > > > > Regards, > > The Australian > > LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (& HMRH) > > of Hougun Manor & Glencoe & British Empire > > MR. Damian A. James Williamson > > Wills > > > > et al. > > > > > > Willtech > > www.willtech.com.au > > www.go-overt.com > > and other projects > > > > earn.com/willtech > > linkedin.com/in/damianwilliamson > > > > > > m. 0487135719 > > f. +61261470192 > > > > > > This email does not constitute a general advice. Please disregard this > email if misdelivered. > ------------------------------ > > *From:* bitcoin-dev on > behalf of Daniel Edgecumbe via bitcoin-dev < > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> > *Sent:* Tuesday, 2 March 2021 12:16 PM > *To:* M.K. Safi via bitcoin-dev > *Subject:* Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK > > > > Any "transparency" in the blockchain, beyond that required for a > participant to determine valid ownership, can only reasonably be thought of > as a bug. > > Today I spent approximately $5 at a chip shop in North London in cash. > Besides the fact that I have voluntarily chosen to share this information, > it is absolutely no concern of yourself or any other party that this > transaction has occured. > > Bitcoin is digital cash. > > Daniel Edgecumbe | esotericnonsense > email@esotericnonsense.com | https://esotericnonsense.com > > On Mon, Mar 1, 2021, at 22:37, Eric Voskuil via bitcoin-dev wrote: > > To be clear, is this a NACK because Taproot reduces “transparency” > > (increases privacy) on the chain (“maintaining consensus” is obviously > > an argument against any protocol change, so that’s a red herring)? > > > > And is it your theory that only an “honest” (statute abiding) person > > should have privacy, and not against the state, and/or that mixers are > > sufficient privacy? > > > > Personally, I’m not moved by such an argument. What do you think is the > > value proposition of Bitcoin? > > > > e > > > > > On Mar 1, 2021, at 14:21, LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via > bitcoin-dev wrote: > > > > > >  > > > Good Afternoon, > > > > > > I am going to take tough terms with much of your reply and do > appreciate a courteous practice. Having previously made public disclosure > of my affiliation with Jambler.io it seems sufficient to disclose my > affiliation through the link in my email signature block. > > > > > > My concern is not increased privacy it is maintaining consensus values > and the transparency of the blockchain wherein all transactions are > published in an immutable record and that forbids the redaction of > information by any obfuscation. A separate concern is the availability of a > privacy suitable for cash should a Bitcoin user desire and especially > without disturbing the existing consensus. > > > > > > The use of a Bitcoin Mixer is to enable standard equivalent privacy. > As you may experience yourself, you do not allow people to follow you > around looking in your purse, suppose you are dealing entirely with cash, > and to see where and how much you fill it up, and where you spend. > Nonetheless, for an honest person, their wallet is available for government > audit as are their financial affairs. This is consistent with the existing > operation of consensus. > > > > > > My full email signature block is a disclosure where I have some > affiliation with the referenced website being that it carries at least some > information that I have provided or that in some way I am associated > perhaps only making use of their services. For example, I hardly make a > profit from LinkedIn just my information is there. Also, I have made > previous public disclosure of the affiliation. Bitcoin Mixer 2.0 is a > partner mixer run by Jambler.io wherein I receive a service referral fee > and am not in receipt of any part of the process transaction. The operation > block diagram provided by Jambler.io is provided here and attached. > > > > > > > > > [ip.bitcointalk.org.png]-Operation of Jambler.io partner mixer > > > > https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fjambler.io%2Fimages%2Fscheme-1.png&t=622&c=gTi7r1cfh-yynw > > > from this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5267588 > > > > > > > > > The installation script provided by Jambler.io that is the basis of my > referral website is also publicly published, > > > https://github.com/jambler-io/bitcoin-mixer > > > > > > The disclosure for the partner program is available from Jambler.io > however and is made prominently on my referral website. While it may seem > lucrative at first I insist all partner profits are reportable on your > personal income. > > > https://jambler.io/become-partner.php > > > > > > I am certainly better than confident that you appreciate the > difference between an open and transparent blockchain and the ability of > the user to not reveal details of the content of their wallet publicly. > > > > > > If further clarification is required may I suggest you pay a token and > mix some Bitcoin wherein our discussion may then have some point of > reference. > > > > > > KING JAMES HRMH > > > Great British Empire > > > > > > Regards, > > > The Australian > > > LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (& HMRH) > > > of Hougun Manor & Glencoe & British Empire > > > MR. Damian A. James Williamson > > > Wills > > > > > > et al. > > > > > > > > > Willtech > > > www.willtech.com.au > > > www.go-overt.com > > > and other projects > > > > > > earn.com/willtech > > > linkedin.com/in/damianwilliamson > > > > > > > > > m. 0487135719 > > > f. +61261470192 > > > > > > > > > This email does not constitute a general advice. Please disregard this > email if misdelivered. > > > *From:* Ariel Lorenzo-Luaces > > > *Sent:* Monday, 1 March 2021 12:07 AM > > > *To:* LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH ; Bitcoin > Protocol Discussion > > > *Subject:* Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK > > > > > > Hello LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH > > > > > > I find a striking dichotomy between your concern of increased privacy > in bitcoin and your link to a bitcoin mixer in your signature > www.go-overt.com > > > > > > At first your concerns seemed genuine but after seeing your promotion > of a bitcoin mixer I'm thinking your concerns may be more profit motivated? > I can't tell since you failed to disclose your relationship with the mixer. > > > > > > Could you please clarify your association with the bitcoin mixer and > moving forward could you please always do proper disclosure any time you're > publically talking about bitcoin transaction privacy. It's only fair to do > so as to not mislead people in an attempt to manipulate at worst and just a > courteous practice at best. > > > > > > Cheers > > > Ariel Lorenzo-Luaces > > > On Feb 28, 2021, at 4:36 AM, LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via > bitcoin-dev wrote: > > >> Good Evening, > > >> > > >> Thank-you for your advice @JeremyRubin < > https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin> on the basis you advise, "Taproot does > not enable monero-like privacy features", I am prepred to withdraw my NACK > notably that the existing feeatures of Bitcoin MUST be maintained, and > whereby the UTXO of a transaction is identifiable, the PayTo Address, and > the amount all without any obfuscation. > > >> > > >> Lightning does not really provide obfuscation, it provides a result > of a subset of transactions although the operation of the channel is > observable to the parties. > > >> > > >> The reports I were reading concerning the supposed operation of > Taproot published in a public media channel may have been speculation or > misinformation nonetheless it is prudent to conditionally reply as you see > that I have. It is important not to allow things to slip through the > cracks. As you may believe may astute reviewers could make a full > disclosure to this list it is not to be expected. > > >> > > >> KING JAMES HRMH > > >> Great British Empire > > >> > > >> Regards, > > >> The Australian > > >> LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (& HMRH) > > >> of Hougun Manor & Glencoe & British Empire > > >> MR. Damian A. James Williamson > > >> Wills > > >> > > >> et al. > > >> > > >> > > >> Willtech > > >> www.willtech.com.au > > >> www.go-overt.com > > >> and other projects > > >> > > >> earn.com/willtech > > >> linkedin.com/in/damianwilliamson > > >> > > >> > > >> m. 0487135719 > > >> f. +61261470192 > > >> > > >> > > >> This email does not constitute a general advice. Please disregard > this email if misdelivered. > > >> *From:* Jeremy > > >> *Sent:* Sunday, 28 February 2021 3:14 AM > > >> *To:* LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH ; Bitcoin > Protocol Discussion > > >> *Subject:* Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK > > >> > > >> I have good news for you: Taproot does not enable monero-like privacy > features any moreso than already exist in Bitcoin today. At its core, > taproot is a way to make transactions with embedded smart contracts less > expensive, done so in a manner that may marginally improve privacy > dependent on user behavior (but not in the monero-like way you mention). > For example, it makes it possible for lightning channels to look > structurally similar to single key wallets, but it does nothing inherently > to obfuscate the transaction graph as in monero. > > >> > > >> Such "monero-like" transaction graph obfuscation may already exist in > Bitcoin via other techniques (coinjoin, payjoin, coinswap, lightning, etc) > with or without Taproot, so the point is further moot. > > >> > > >> Do you have a source on your reporting? > > >> > > >> You may wish to rescind your nack. > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> @JeremyRubin < > https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin> > > >> > > >> > > >> On Sat, Feb 27, 2021 at 5:46 AM LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via > bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > > >>> Good Afternoon, > > >>> > > >>> It has been reported that Taproot will enable some Monero like > features including the ability to hide transactions. > > >>> > > >>> If that is the case I offer a full NACK and let me explain. > > >>> > > >>> A part of the benefit of using Bitcoin is its honesty. The full > transaction is published on the blockchain. If that were to change so that > transactions may be obfuscated from scrutiny then any government would have > unlimited impetus to ban Bitcoin, and speculation has that is the reason > India has been reported to have banned cryptocurrencies already. > > >>> > > >>> I am in support of the expanded use case of Bitcoin without harming > the established robust fairness and equal equity offered. The core > functionality of Bitcoin, its values, must remain unaltered. > > >>> > > >>> KING JAMES HRMH > > >>> Great British Empire > > >>> > > >>> Regards, > > >>> The Australian > > >>> LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (& HMRH) > > >>> of Hougun Manor & Glencoe & British Empire > > >>> MR. Damian A. James Williamson > > >>> Wills > > >>> > > >>> et al. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Willtech > > >>> www.willtech.com.au > > >>> www.go-overt.com > > >>> and other projects > > >>> > > >>> earn.com/willtech > > >>> linkedin.com/in/damianwilliamson > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> m. 0487135719 > > >>> f. +61261470192 > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> This email does not constitute a general advice. Please disregard > this email if misdelivered. > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> bitcoin-dev mailing list > > >>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > > >>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > > >> > > >> bitcoin-dev mailing list > > >> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > > >> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > bitcoin-dev mailing list > > > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > > > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > > _______________________________________________ > > bitcoin-dev mailing list > > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > > > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev >