From: Jeff Garzik <jgarzik@bitpay•com>
To: Mike Hearn <mike@plan99•net>
Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists•sourceforge.net>,
Flavien Charlon <flavien.charlon@coinprism•com>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] [BIP draft] CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY - Prevent a txout from being spent until an expiration time
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2014 19:12:11 -0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAJHLa0NRNEQLqA2E=ysXsKw6hWS-H9X_AFYK4ckC4-_Bk=qbSA@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CANEZrP1eGi-AHgciQiKUuUB7WwqKsMOyTjCQAAO=RWEkPC2Uiw@mail.gmail.com>
RE " It's not like other software where people can choose to skip an
upgrade and things still work just like before."
If you're a minority, sure you can. Still a few nutters out there on
a 0.3.x codebase, including one or two inattentive,
now-inconsequential miners.
There is some headroom built in for just that... less disruptive
upgrades that don't require 100%.
On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 4:58 PM, Mike Hearn <mike@plan99•net> wrote:
> Alright. It seems there's no real disagreement about how the opcode behaves.
> Perhaps a time limit would be appropriate to stop people creating outputs
> locked for 100 years .... is bitcoin even likely to exist in 100 years? The
> entire history of computing is not even that old, seems hard to imagine that
> it'd be good for anything beyond wasting space in the database. But this is
> a minor point.
>
> So I guess it's time to start the deployment discussion.
>
> Bitcoin is a consensus system. It works best when everyone is following
> exactly the same rules at the same time. A soft fork works against this
> principle by allowing nodes to think they're following the majority ruleset,
> even if they aren't, effectively downgrading them to something a bit like
> SPV security without them realising.
>
> A hard fork has multiple desirable properties. Most importantly, it means a
> node can detect it's no longer in the consensus because it'll find its own
> chain height has diverged significantly from its peers. Core already has
> code that knows how to detect this condition and log errors about it as well
> as running the alertnotify script i.e. emailing the admin. Ideally it would
> also stop serving work so miners shut down or fail over, but this is easily
> added to the CheckForkWarningConditions() function.
>
> In other words, this gives the cleanest failure we can give, such that any
> procedures a node operator has put in place to alert them of divergence will
> be triggered. Any code which is waiting for confirmations will wait forever
> at this point, thus minimising the risk of loss.
>
> Additionally, forcing old peers to fall behind means SPV clients will pick
> the right chain, and not end up downloading transactions or blocks that are
> about to be doomed at the next re-org. They can easily choose to ignore
> transactions relayed by peers that are too far behind and thus not end up
> accepting transactions that are no longer valid according to the majority (a
> scenario which can cause monetary loss).
>
> I don't think hard forks should be scary. Mechanisms are in place to warn
> people and they can be scheduled with plenty of time in advance. The main
> stated justification for a soft fork is backwards compatibility, but in a
> system like Bitcoin you really don't want to be running behind the consensus
> and it's hard to imagine any node operator deliberately choosing to stay on
> the wrong side of the fork. It's not like other software where people can
> choose to skip an upgrade and things still work just like before.
>
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--
Jeff Garzik
Bitcoin core developer and open source evangelist
BitPay, Inc. https://bitpay.com/
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2014-10-03 23:12 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 46+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2014-10-01 13:08 Peter Todd
2014-10-01 15:01 ` Gavin Andresen
2014-10-02 1:06 ` Peter Todd
2014-10-01 15:29 ` Sergio Lerner
2014-10-01 17:06 ` Peter Todd
2014-10-01 18:23 ` Luke Dashjr
2014-10-01 20:58 ` Gavin Andresen
2014-10-01 21:04 ` Alan Reiner
2014-10-01 21:34 ` Gavin Andresen
2014-10-02 0:12 ` Peter Todd
2014-10-02 0:05 ` Peter Todd
2014-10-02 0:55 ` Luke Dashjr
2014-10-02 1:09 ` Peter Todd
2014-10-02 15:05 ` Flavien Charlon
2014-10-03 14:28 ` Matt Whitlock
2014-10-03 14:30 ` Matt Whitlock
2014-10-03 16:17 ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-10-03 17:50 ` Luke Dashjr
2014-10-03 20:58 ` Mike Hearn
2014-10-03 23:12 ` Jeff Garzik [this message]
2014-10-04 0:38 ` Peter Todd
2014-10-04 12:58 ` Mike Hearn
2014-10-07 15:50 ` Gavin Andresen
2014-10-07 16:08 ` Mike Hearn
2014-10-08 10:26 ` Wladimir
2014-10-09 3:13 ` Alan Reiner
2014-10-09 6:14 ` Adam Back
2014-10-09 6:28 ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-10-09 6:33 ` Peter Todd
2014-10-09 6:40 ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-10-08 4:07 ` Tom Harding
2014-10-08 10:15 ` Mike Hearn
2015-03-16 22:22 ` [Bitcoin-development] Relative CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY (was CLTV proposal) Matt Corallo
2015-03-19 17:39 ` Zooko Wilcox-OHearn
2015-04-21 7:59 ` Peter Todd
2015-04-26 11:35 ` Jorge Timón
2015-04-26 12:20 ` Jorge Timón
2015-04-27 19:35 ` Peter Todd
2015-04-28 7:44 ` Jorge Timón
2015-05-04 2:15 ` Matt Corallo
2015-05-04 11:24 ` Jorge Timón
2015-05-05 0:41 ` Btc Drak
2015-05-05 19:19 ` Jorge Timón
2015-05-05 20:38 ` Tier Nolan
2015-05-06 7:37 ` Jorge Timón
2015-05-06 22:09 ` Tier Nolan
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