From: Jeff Garzik <jgarzik@bitpay•com>
To: "Warren Togami Jr." <wtogami@gmail•com>
Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists•sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposal: Move Bitcoin Dev List to a Neutral Competent Entity
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2015 11:15:18 -0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAJHLa0OOnYMuA-8qfHafw5D0zGw_U06PZaAKS2j=Av_KUhgt-A@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAEz79Pp_6FhDjtR6emBcXf_WT14MbDaTxMbeAo=QAfhS-ihFCQ@mail.gmail.com>
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* ACK on moving away from SourceForge mailing lists - though only once a
community-welcomed replacement is up and running
* ACK on using LF as a mailing infrastructure provider
* Research secure mailing list models, for bitcoin-security. The list is
not ultra high security - we all use PGP for that - but it would perhaps be
nice to find some spiffy cryptosystem where mailing list participants
individually hold keys & therefore access.
On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 6:12 AM, Warren Togami Jr. <wtogami@gmail•com>
wrote:
> Discomfort with Sourceforge
>
> For a while now people have been expressing concern about Sourceforge's
> continued hosting of the bitcoin-dev mailing list. Downloads were moved
> completely to bitcoin.org after the Sept 2014 hacking incident of the SF
> project account. The company's behavior and perceived stability have been
> growing to be increasingly questionable.
>
>
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/11/08/gimp_dumps_sourceforge_over_dodgy_ads_and_installer
>
> November 2013: GIMP flees SourceForge over dodgy ads and installer
>
> https://lwn.net/Articles/646118/
>
> May 28th, 2015: SourceForge replacing GIMP Windows downloads
>
> http://seclists.org/nmap-dev/2015/q2/194
>
> June 3rd, 2015: Sourceforge hijacked nmap's old site and downloads.
>
> When this topic came up over the past two years, it seemed that most
> people agreed it would be a good idea to move. Someone always suggests
> Google Groups as the replacement host. Google is quickly shot down as too
> controversial in this community, and it becomes an even more difficult
> question as to who else should host it. Realizing this is not so simple,
> discussion then dies off until the next time somebody brings it up.
>
>
> http://sourceforge.net/p/bitcoin/mailman/bitcoin-development/thread/1943127.DBnVxmfOIh%401337h4x0r/#msg34192607
>
> Somebody brought it up again this past week.
>
> It seems logical that an open discussion list is not a big deal to
> continue to be hosted on Sourceforge, as there isn’t much they could do to
> screw it up. I personally think moving it away now would be seen as a
> gesture that we do not consider their behavior to be acceptable. There are
> also some benefits in being hosted elsewhere, at an entity able to
> professionally maintain their infrastructure while also being neutral to
> the content.
>
> Proposal: Move Bitcoin Dev List to a Neutral Competent Entity
>
> Bitcoin is a global infrastructure development project where it would be
> politically awkward for any of the existing Bitcoin companies or orgs to
> host due to questions it would raise about perceived political control.
> For example, consider a bizarro parallel universe where MtGox was the
> inventor of Bitcoin, where they hosted its development infrastructure and
> dev list under their own name. Even if what they published was 100%
> technically and ideologically equivalent to the Bitcoin we know in our
> dimension, most people wouldn't have trusted it merely due to appearances
> and it would have easily gone nowhere.
>
> I had a similar thought process last week when sidechains code was
> approaching release. Sidechains, like Bitcoin itself, are intended to be a
> generic piece of infrastructure (like ethernet?) that anyone can build upon
> and use. We thought about Google Groups or existing orgs that already host
> various open source infrastructure discussion lists like the IETF or the
> Linux Foundation. Google is too controversial in this community, and the
> IETF is seen as possibly too politically fractured. The Linux Foundation
> hosts a bunch of infrastructure lists
> <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo> and it seems that
> nobody in the Open Source industry considers them to be particularly
> objectionable. I talked with LF about the idea of hosting generic
> Bitcoin-related infrastructure development lists. They agreed as OSS
> infrastructure dev is already within their charter, so early this week
> sidechains-dev list began hosting there.
>
> From the perspective of our community, for bitcoin-dev it seems like a
> great fit. Why? While they are interested in supporting general open
> source development, the LF has literally zero stake in this. In addition
> to neutrality, they seem to be suitable as a competent host. They have
> full-time sysadmins maintaining their infrastructure including the Mailman
> server. They are soon upgrading to Mailman 3
> <http://wiki.list.org/Mailman3>, which means mailing lists would benefit
> from the improved archive browser. I am not personally familiar with
> HyperKitty, but the point here is they are a stable non-profit entity who
> will competently maintain and improve things like their Mailman deployment
> (a huge improvement over the stagnant Sourceforge). It seems that LF would
> be competent, neutral place to host dev lists for the long-term.
>
> To be clear, this proposal is only about hosting the discussion list. The
> LF would have no control over the Bitcoin Project, as no single entity
> should.
>
> Proposed Action Plan
>
>
> -
>
> Discuss this openly within this community. Above is one example of a
> great neutral and competent host. If the technical leaders here can agree
> to move to a particular neutral host then we do it.
> -
>
> Migration: The current list admins become the new list admins. We
> import the entire list archive into the new host's archives for user
> convenience.
> -
>
> http://sourceforge.net/p/bitcoin/mailman/ Kill bitcoin-list and
> bitcoin-test. Very few people actually use it. Actually, let's delete the
> entire Bitcoin Sourceforge project as its continued existence serves no
> purpose and it only confuses people who find it. By deletion, nobody has
> to monitor it for a repeat of the Sept 2014 hacking incident
> <https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTc4Mzg> or GIMP-type
> hijacking <https://lwn.net/Articles/646118/>?
> -
>
> The toughest question would be the appropriateness of auto-importing
> the subscriber list to another list server, as mass imports have a tendency
> to upset people.
>
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Warren Togami
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development@lists•sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
>
--
Jeff Garzik
Bitcoin core developer and open source evangelist
BitPay, Inc. https://bitpay.com/
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2015-06-14 15:15 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 16+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2015-06-14 10:12 Warren Togami Jr.
2015-06-14 15:15 ` Jeff Garzik [this message]
2015-06-14 16:56 ` Peter Todd
2015-06-15 3:19 ` Warren Togami Jr.
2015-06-15 5:50 ` Andy Schroder
2015-06-15 9:13 ` odinn
2015-06-17 0:19 ` Warren Togami Jr.
2015-06-17 1:59 ` grarpamp
2015-06-14 20:55 ` Andy Schroder
2015-06-14 21:59 ` Adam Back
2015-06-14 22:14 ` Davide Cavion
2015-06-14 21:54 ` odinn
2015-06-14 22:38 ` Gregory Maxwell
2015-06-15 10:13 ` Mike Hearn
2015-06-15 19:45 ` Adam Weiss
2015-06-15 20:50 ` Pieter Wuille
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