From: Allen Piscitello <allen.piscitello@gmail•com>
To: Bitcoin Development <bitcoin-development@lists•sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 11:55:58 -0500 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAJfRnm5Q-XvPLBh1iznXZNT+b=wTkhcPoExVUgK8=oL58ahRkQ@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAKaEYh+Z4J7_xm2+RueV9DCy+MCPmjbkmAYVUjRHEhNa4jf9QQ@mail.gmail.com>
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Mike is making an assumption that is not necessary, which is the price of
the most commonly used unit should be between is $.50 and $1000. The issue
to revisit or not shouldn't require $1,000,000 Bitcoin price. Typing a ton
of decimals is incredibly annoying. Doing the mental math in my head is
annoying. Even if a cup of coffee costs 3.12345 mBTC, that's a lot more
annoying than 3123.45 uBTC.
The points that people liked mBTC better than BTC doesn't mean anything
when comparing uBTC to mBTC. Many people just stopped thinking at the mBTC
level, do not understand the implications involved in switching to uBTC, or
even considered uBTC. The idea that we can just poll what people want to
give them the ideal experience is also flawed, in that users often don't
know what they want until they have it in front of them.
There is basically no downside to uBTC, except a few places already
switched to mBTC. For exchanges, which are dealing with decimals since
they will do BTC/USD rather than the opposite, it might make sense for them
to continue to use mBTC or BTC. For wallets and prices for users,
especially when there are large decimals since the price is still based on
more stable currencies, then converted to Bitcoin, let's switch to what is
easiest.
I haven't seen a single good argument for keeping it in mBTC (other than
some people already did it). On the other hand, I've seen numerous great
reasons for switching to uBTC.
My two cents.
On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Melvin Carvalho
<melvincarvalho@gmail•com>wrote:
>
>
>
> On 13 March 2014 16:50, Mike Hearn <mike@plan99•net> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 3:32 PM, Jeff Garzik <jgarzik@bitpay•com> wrote:
>>
>>> Such hand-wavy, data-free logic is precisely why community
>>> coordination is preferred to random apps making random decisions in
>>> this manner.
>>>
>>
>> That ship sailed months ago. If you wanted a big push for uBTC, then
>> would have been the time. Though given that it'd have made lots of normal
>> balances incredibly huge, perhaps it's a good thing that didn't happen.
>> Also "milli" is a unit people encounter in daily life whereas micro isn't.
>> Is it milli / micro / nano or milli / nano / micro? I bet a lot of people
>> would get that wrong.
>>
>> If you have to export to financial packages that can't handle fractional
>> pennies, then by all means represent prices in whatever units you like for
>> that purpose, but in software designed for ordinary people in everyday life
>> mBTC is a pretty good fit.
>>
>> Besides, fractional pennies crop up in existing currencies too (the
>> famous Verizon Math episode showed this), so if a financial package insists
>> on rounding to 2dp then I guess it may sometimes do the wrong thing in some
>> business cases already.
>>
>> Fundamentally, more than two decimal places tends to violate the
>>> Principle Of Least Astonishment with many humans, and as a result,
>>> popular software systems have been written with that assumption.
>>
>>
>> Lots of people use currencies that don't have any fractional components
>> at all ! So perhaps all prices should be denominated in satoshis to ensure
>> that they're not surprised :)
>>
>> The (number) line has to be drawn somewhere. Wallets are free to suppress
>> more than 2dp of precision and actually Andreas' app lets you choose your
>> preferred precision. So I think in the end it won't matter a whole lot, if
>> the defaults end up being wrong people can change them until wallet authors
>> catch up.
>>
>
> +1 agree with Mike on everything
>
> A couple of points:
>
> 1. bitcoinity already switched to mbtc aka millitbits (
> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/MilliBit ) and it was positively recieved,
> they got quite a few donations
>
> 2. If you watch Gavin's talk at the CFR he suggests the community comes to
> a consensus through implementations rather than top down decision making
> (If I understood correctly)
>
> I think it's up to wallet maintainers whether to switch the default.
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their
> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2014-03-13 16:56 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 112+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2013-11-14 11:45 Melvin Carvalho
2013-11-14 18:18 ` Luke-Jr
2013-11-17 3:22 ` Jacob Lyles
2013-11-14 20:01 ` Alan Reiner
2013-11-14 21:15 ` Mark Friedenbach
2013-11-14 21:55 ` Allen Piscitello
2013-11-14 22:00 ` Alan Reiner
2013-11-14 22:07 ` Allen Piscitello
2013-11-14 23:01 ` Luke-Jr
2013-11-14 23:11 ` Mark Friedenbach
2013-11-14 23:13 ` Luke-Jr
2013-11-14 23:22 ` Jeff Garzik
2013-11-15 0:15 ` Luke-Jr
2013-11-15 0:18 ` Mark Friedenbach
2013-11-16 0:41 ` Drak
2013-11-16 0:48 ` Mark Friedenbach
2013-11-16 1:10 ` Luke-Jr
2013-11-16 1:19 ` Jean-Paul Kogelman
2013-11-16 1:19 ` Drak
2013-11-16 1:31 ` Mark Friedenbach
2013-11-15 8:55 ` Eugen Leitl
2013-11-14 22:21 ` Mark Friedenbach
2013-11-14 22:32 ` Drak
2013-11-14 22:37 ` Drak
2014-05-02 19:17 ` Jeff Garzik
2014-05-03 0:54 ` Ben Davenport
2014-05-03 1:13 ` Alan Reiner
2014-05-03 1:50 ` Aaron Voisine
2014-05-03 2:10 ` Matias Alejo Garcia
2014-05-03 2:38 ` Luke Dashjr
2014-05-03 2:41 ` Ben Davenport
2014-05-03 2:43 ` Peter Todd
2014-05-03 3:35 ` Un Ix
2014-05-03 12:32 ` Roy Badami
2014-05-03 4:23 ` Tamas Blummer
2013-11-14 22:03 ` Jeff Garzik
2013-11-14 22:31 ` Mark Friedenbach
2013-11-14 22:53 ` Alan Reiner
2013-11-14 23:01 ` Jeff Garzik
2013-11-14 23:10 ` Luke-Jr
2013-11-15 9:23 ` Eugen Leitl
2013-11-15 9:37 ` Alex Kravets
2013-11-15 9:59 ` Adam Back
2013-11-15 10:39 ` Eugen Leitl
2013-11-15 7:18 ` Wladimir
2013-11-18 2:28 ` Wendell
2014-03-13 12:56 ` Jeff Garzik
2014-03-13 13:29 ` Gary Rowe
2014-03-13 13:31 ` Mike Hearn
2014-03-13 13:40 ` Andreas Schildbach
2014-03-14 14:05 ` Andreas Schildbach
2014-03-14 14:14 ` Tamas Blummer
2014-03-14 14:49 ` Andreas Schildbach
2014-03-14 14:57 ` Tamas Blummer
2014-03-14 15:02 ` Andreas Schildbach
2014-03-14 15:12 ` Tamas Blummer
2014-03-14 15:30 ` Andreas Schildbach
2014-03-14 15:32 ` Mike Hearn
2014-03-14 15:56 ` Andreas Schildbach
2014-03-14 16:01 ` Mark Friedenbach
2014-03-14 16:15 ` Alex Morcos
2014-03-14 16:51 ` Ricardo Filipe
2014-03-14 16:58 ` Allen Piscitello
2014-03-14 15:10 ` Tyler
2014-03-14 14:18 ` Roy Badami
2014-03-13 19:38 ` Jeff Garzik
2014-03-13 13:34 ` Wladimir
2014-03-13 13:45 ` Jeff Garzik
2014-03-13 13:53 ` Mike Hearn
2014-03-13 14:32 ` Jeff Garzik
2014-03-13 15:50 ` Mike Hearn
2014-03-13 16:17 ` Troy Benjegerdes
2014-03-13 16:39 ` Melvin Carvalho
2014-03-13 16:55 ` Allen Piscitello [this message]
2014-03-13 17:13 ` Mike Hearn
2014-03-13 17:23 ` Allen Piscitello
2014-03-13 16:14 ` Alan Reiner
2014-03-13 16:23 ` Tamas Blummer
2014-03-13 16:29 ` Jeff Garzik
2014-03-13 17:18 ` Mark Friedenbach
2014-03-13 17:21 ` Jeff Garzik
2014-03-13 17:24 ` Mike Hearn
2014-03-13 17:36 ` Alan Reiner
2014-03-13 17:43 ` Wladimir
2014-03-13 17:51 ` Mike Hearn
2014-03-13 17:58 ` Alan Reiner
2014-03-13 19:26 ` Drak
2014-03-13 16:08 ` Troy Benjegerdes
2014-03-13 16:30 ` Tamas Blummer
2014-03-13 16:37 ` slush
2014-03-13 17:48 ` Luke-Jr
2014-03-13 18:23 ` Jorge Timón
2014-03-13 18:29 ` Mike Hearn
2014-03-13 18:51 ` Ben Davenport
2014-03-14 0:34 ` Jorge Timón
2014-03-14 17:14 ` vv01f
2014-03-14 20:13 ` Natanael
2014-03-14 1:26 ` Un Ix
2014-03-14 21:56 ` Odinn Cyberguerrilla
2013-11-15 10:45 ` Wladimir
2013-11-15 10:57 ` Eugen Leitl
2013-11-14 22:27 ` Drak
2013-11-15 0:05 ` Jeff Garzik
2013-11-15 0:37 ` Daniel F
2013-11-15 0:46 ` Melvin Carvalho
2013-11-15 0:57 ` Alan Reiner
2014-05-02 14:29 ` Melvin Carvalho
2013-11-15 5:21 Tamas Blummer
[not found] <mailman.271337.1390426426.2210.bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
2014-03-13 15:17 ` Tamas Blummer
2014-03-13 15:37 ` Chris Pacia
2014-03-14 16:25 Andrew Smith
[not found] <536537E2.1060200@stud.uni-saarland.de>
2014-05-03 18:46 ` Jannis Froese
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