From: Allen Piscitello <allen.piscitello@gmail•com>
To: Justus Ranvier <justusranvier@riseup•net>
Cc: Bitcoin Development <bitcoin-development@lists•sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] replace-by-fee v0.10.0rc4
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 13:47:12 -0600 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAJfRnm5d2WcZw3eRjN-cLajwTM0iF_o7OCPc+dkv+s-p3e9nLg@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <54DD003E.2060508@riseup.net>
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Nothing will stop that. Bitcoin needs to deal with those issues, not stick
our heads in the sand and pretend they don't exist out of benevolence.
This isn't a pet solution, but the rules of the protocol and what is
realistically possible given the nature of distributed consensus. Relying
on altruism is a recipe for failure.
On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 1:34 PM, Justus Ranvier <justusranvier@riseup•net>
wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
>
> On 02/12/2015 07:15 PM, Alan Reiner wrote:
> > I'll add fuel to the fire here, and express that I believe that
> > replace-by-fee is good in the long-term. Peter is not breaking
> > the zero-conf, it was already broken, and not admitting it creates
> > a false sense of security. I don't want to see systems that are
> > built on the assumption that zero-conf tx are safe solely because
> > it has always appeared safe. You can argue about rational miner
> > behaviors all day, but in a decentralized system you have no idea
> > what miners consider rational, or speculate about their incentives.
> >
> As noted elsewhere in the thread, there are two problems with this
> analysis:
>
> 1. It asserts that zero-confirmation transactions are in a binary
> state of safe/broken instead of recognizing that relying on them is a
> non-binary risk analysis on the part of a merchant.
>
> 2. Assumptions about what is profitable for miners are based on all
> miners having short time horizons for calculating profits.
>
> In addition, I'll add that there is an assumption that honest actors
> can not alter their behavior in response to changing conditions.
>
> Since scorched-earth solutions to problems are apparently acceptable
> now, what would stop more honest node operators from patching their
> nodes to blacklist any peer that relays replace-by-fee transactions,
> and maybe even publish an IP address list of those peers?
>
> Punishing Bitcoin users for not adopting somebody's pet solution to a
> problem neither responsible nor ethical.
>
> Child-pays-for-parent allows for stuck transactions to be cleared from
> the mempool, and allows recipients of zero-conf transactions to adjust
> their risk exposure as much or as little as they like.
>
> It's a solution that gives Bitcoin users more freedom, instead of
> trying to coerce them into pre-determined directions.
>
> - --
> Support online privacy by using email encryption whenever possible.
> Learn how here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bakOKJFtB-k
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2015-02-12 19:47 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 79+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2015-02-12 6:47 Peter Todd
2015-02-12 7:23 ` Tamas Blummer
2015-02-12 7:45 ` Peter Todd
2015-02-12 8:27 ` Tamas Blummer
2015-02-12 8:49 ` Peter Todd
2015-02-12 9:01 ` Tamas Blummer
2015-02-15 20:51 ` Troy Benjegerdes
2015-02-12 8:16 ` Alex Mizrahi
2015-02-12 11:58 ` Mike Hearn
2015-02-12 12:23 ` Natanael
2015-02-12 12:49 ` Mike Hearn
2015-02-12 13:02 ` Natanael
2015-02-12 13:44 ` Mike Hearn
2015-02-12 14:36 ` Natanael
2015-02-12 14:53 ` Mike Hearn
2015-02-12 15:20 ` Natanael
2015-02-12 15:30 ` Justus Ranvier
2015-02-12 13:36 ` Oleg Andreev
2015-02-12 12:52 ` Alex Mizrahi
2015-02-12 13:18 ` Mike Hearn
2015-02-12 13:45 ` Alex Mizrahi
2015-02-12 13:52 ` Mike Hearn
2015-02-12 14:04 ` Tamas Blummer
2015-02-12 14:16 ` Mike Hearn
2015-02-12 14:25 ` Tamas Blummer
2015-02-12 23:08 ` Tom Harding
2015-02-12 14:32 ` Alex Mizrahi
2015-02-12 15:15 ` Mike Hearn
2015-02-12 15:32 ` Natanael
2015-02-12 15:42 ` Mike Hearn
2015-02-12 15:54 ` Natanael
2015-02-12 16:57 ` Btc Drak
2015-02-12 17:24 ` Oleg Andreev
2015-02-12 18:11 ` Justus Ranvier
2015-02-12 18:37 ` Allen Piscitello
2015-02-12 19:15 ` Alan Reiner
2015-02-12 19:34 ` Justus Ranvier
2015-02-12 19:45 ` Peter Todd
2015-02-12 19:49 ` Justus Ranvier
2015-02-12 19:47 ` Allen Piscitello [this message]
2015-02-12 19:52 ` Justus Ranvier
2015-02-12 20:02 ` Natanael
2015-02-12 20:36 ` Allen Piscitello
2015-02-14 14:47 ` Ross Nicoll
2015-02-12 20:06 ` Peter Todd
2015-02-12 19:49 ` Gregory Maxwell
2015-02-12 20:18 ` Peter Todd
2015-02-13 11:34 ` Mike Hearn
2015-02-12 12:54 ` Tamas Blummer
2015-02-12 14:42 ` Alex Mizrahi
2015-02-12 15:27 ` Jeff Garzik
2015-02-15 21:25 ` Troy Benjegerdes
2015-02-15 21:40 ` Adam Gibson
2015-02-19 8:56 ` Troy Benjegerdes
2015-02-21 19:09 ` Jorge Timón
2015-02-21 20:30 ` Mark Friedenbach
2015-02-21 22:47 ` Jeff Garzik
2015-02-22 1:15 ` Peter Todd
2015-02-22 3:25 ` Jorge Timón
2015-02-22 4:06 ` Jeff Garzik
2015-02-22 11:41 ` Eric Lombrozo
2015-02-22 12:06 ` Eric Lombrozo
2015-02-22 13:41 ` Eric Lombrozo
2015-02-22 13:53 ` Peter Todd
2015-02-22 23:29 ` Eric Lombrozo
2015-02-24 1:11 ` Jeff Garzik
2015-03-01 17:59 ` Troy Benjegerdes
2015-03-01 19:05 ` Neil Fincham
2015-03-01 17:44 ` Troy Benjegerdes
2015-02-12 16:15 ` Lawrence Nahum
2015-02-12 18:14 ` Tom Harding
2015-02-12 21:40 ` Josh Lehan
2015-02-22 16:36 ` Tom Harding
2015-02-22 17:12 ` Peter Todd
2015-02-22 19:25 ` Tom Harding
2015-02-22 21:50 ` Peter Todd
2015-05-04 4:36 ` [Bitcoin-development] New release of replace-by-fee for Bitcoin Core v0.10.1 Peter Todd
2015-05-05 2:23 ` Kevin Greene
2015-05-23 18:26 ` [Bitcoin-development] Replace-by-fee v0.10.2 - Serious DoS attack fixed! - Also novel variants of existing attacks w/ Bitcoin XT and Android Bitcoin Wallet Peter Todd
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