From: Ricardo Filipe <ricardojdfilipe@gmail•com>
To: Peter Todd <pete@petertodd•org>
Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists•sourceforge.net>,
Gavin Andresen <gavin@bitcoinfoundation•org>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Tree-chains preliminary summary
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 20:40:40 +0000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CALC81CPrzRPsMcw2CLOFhDJx8We_cUQ7OW1OnkoDvLz4Uum_Cw@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20140325134918.GB7929@savin>
2014-03-25 13:49 GMT+00:00 Peter Todd <pete@petertodd•org>:
> On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 08:45:00AM -0400, Gavin Andresen wrote:
>> On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 8:28 AM, Peter Todd <pete@petertodd•org> wrote:
>>
>> > Bitcoin doesn't scale. There's a lot of issues at hand here, but the
>> > most fundemental of them is that to create a block you need to update
>> > the state of the UTXO set, and the way Bitcoin is designed means that
>> > updating that state requires bandwidth equal to all the transaction
>> > volume to keep up with the changes to what set. Long story short, we get
>> > O(n^2) scaling, which is just plain infeasible.
>> >
>>
>> We have a fundamental disagreement here.
>>
>> If you go back and read Satoshi's original thoughts on scaling, it is clear
>> that he imagined tens of thousands of mining nodes and hundreds of millions
>> of lightweight SPV users.
>
> Yeah, about that...
>
> https://blockchain.info/pools
>
On-topic:
This argument is quite the fallacy. The only reason we have that few
pools is because each of their miners doesn't find it feasible to mine
"on their own". if you count the individual miners on those pools you
will get to the scale Gavin was trying to point out.
Nevertheless i think that is just a minor disagreement, since tree
chains help decentralization.
> For someone with 'Chief Scientist' as their job title, I'm surprised you
> think so little of hard evidence and so much of idol worshipping.
>
>
> P.S. A year or so ago you complained that if I cared so much about
> decentralization, I should make P2Pool better. Your homework: What do
> tree-chains and Andrew Miller's non-outsourcable puzzles(1) have to do
> with that? What about the cube-square law? And why don't I think TXO
> commitments solve the blocksize problem?
>
> 1) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=309073.0;all
>
> --
> 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org
> 000000000000000020366a15799010ae0432be831c197e06b19133028a9aa6f3
>
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2014-03-25 20:40 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 36+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2014-03-22 8:47 [Bitcoin-development] Handling miner adoption gracefully for embedded consensus systems via double-spending/replace-by-fee Peter Todd
2014-03-22 13:53 ` Jorge Timón
2014-03-22 19:34 ` Peter Todd
2014-03-22 20:12 ` Jorge Timón
2014-03-23 23:17 ` Troy Benjegerdes
2014-03-23 23:53 ` Mark Friedenbach
2014-03-24 20:34 ` Troy Benjegerdes
2014-03-24 20:57 ` Mark Friedenbach
2014-03-25 22:10 ` Troy Benjegerdes
2014-03-26 1:09 ` kjj
2014-03-22 15:08 ` Troy Benjegerdes
2014-03-22 17:04 ` Mark Friedenbach
2014-03-22 19:08 ` Peter Todd
2014-03-23 22:37 ` Troy Benjegerdes
[not found] ` <532DE7E6.4050304@monetize.io>
2014-03-25 12:28 ` [Bitcoin-development] Tree-chains preliminary summary Peter Todd
2014-03-25 12:45 ` Gavin Andresen
2014-03-25 13:49 ` Peter Todd
2014-03-25 15:20 ` Mike Hearn
2014-03-25 16:47 ` Peter Todd
2014-03-25 17:37 ` Jeff Garzik
2014-03-25 18:02 ` Alan Reiner
2014-03-25 18:13 ` slush
2014-03-25 19:47 ` Peter Todd
2014-03-25 21:41 ` Troy Benjegerdes
2014-03-25 20:40 ` Ricardo Filipe [this message]
2014-03-25 22:00 ` Troy Benjegerdes
2014-03-26 10:58 ` Peter Todd
2014-03-25 12:50 ` Peter Todd
2014-03-25 21:03 ` Mark Friedenbach
2014-03-25 22:34 ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-03-27 16:14 ` Jorge Timón
2014-03-28 15:10 ` Troy Benjegerdes
2014-04-17 21:41 ` Tier Nolan
2014-03-26 10:48 ` Peter Todd
2014-08-03 17:23 ` Gregory Sanders
2014-03-24 21:17 ` [Bitcoin-development] Handling miner adoption gracefully for embedded consensus systems via double-spending/replace-by-fee Luke-Jr
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