Hi Lawrence/All


I'm afraid with this BIP for TTP of instant transactions we will end up in VISA world again. As I see it - it's not about if the TTPs will centralize, it's only when. Simply because if economy of scales makes growth profitable and coming into this market is at least a little expensive - this (centralization, VISA world) will happen, sooner rather than later. 
And while some may argue that coming to market in Bitcoin world is cheap so the crowd will always have a chance to come in and beat the monopolists - think of one thing. Right now Bitcoin is not seen as money and not regulated accordingly anywhere in the world, thanks God, but how many years away we are from the point when it will start to be regulated that way? And once it is - the monopolies will make sure that rules are restrictive enough to prevent competition, especially in conjunction with economy of scales playing against the small newcomers. 
The "instant providers list" is susceptible to regulatory influence, and once in place and widespread - it will be a timebomb under Bitcoin. We need to solve the doublespend issue without TTP involvement, or at least without even a slight chance of making this involvement regulateable. Otherwise I think the Bitcoin experiment will fail.


Best regards, 
Alex Kotenko


2014-06-16 18:16 GMT+01:00 Lawrence Nahum <lawrence@greenaddress.it>:
Mike Hearn <mike <at> plan99.net> writes:

> As long as miners stick to Satoshi's first seen rule, which is the
default, it's useful:
>
>
> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=423.msg3819#msg3819
>
>
>
>
> (this is the famous "snack machine" thread from 2010)
>
> If they decide to change to something like highest-fee-always-wins, then
they (again) centralise things by forcing all instant transactions to pay
GreenAddress and its competitors money - much though I like your product
Lawrence, let's hope they don't collectively lemming us all off a cliff by
doing that ;)


I assume we can't enforce to miners rules about which tx will go in and
which won't and therefore whether this will cause more or less double
spends.


I mean, you can try but I would rather have to option to pick an third party
instant provider explicitly than  enforce bigger rules on mining which would
IMHO lead to implicit centralization.






------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions
Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems
Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data.
Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration
http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems
_______________________________________________
Bitcoin-development mailing list
Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development