Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot (and graftroot) complexity

From: Antoine Riard <antoine.riard@gmail•com>
To: Matt Corallo <lf-lists@mattcorallo•com>,
	 Bitcoin Protocol Discussion
	<bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot (and graftroot) complexity
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2020 17:32:41 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CALZpt+HRuxNxKsdwtyMD=+hE-Tq+8Wt9mLVP0vj9Z+yENg_UJg@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <2d9970d8-209d-7223-6564-ad858dce5981@mattcorallo.com>

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3191 bytes --]

 > In particular, you care more about privacy when you are contesting a
> close of a channel or other script path because then the miners could be
more
> likely to extract a rent from you as "ransom" for properly closing your
channel
> (or in other words, in a contested close the value of the closing
transaction is
> larger than usual).

Not sure this point holds, independently of which Taproot/MASTmechanism
deployed,
any time-sensitive transaction will likely leak its "contestness" by the
setting of its
nSequence/nLocktime fields. E.g, for LN, justice tx are not encumbered by a
CSV
delay which distinguish them from a non-revoked spend. And when you're
relaying
htlcs and need to close unilaterally channel to prevent different
settlement on
incoming/outgoing links the HTLC-timeout tx broadcast have a nLocktime set.

Beyond LN, timelocks are a privacy leak and miner-withholding vector for any
offchain protocols but this problem is not tied to Taproot design.
Confidential
enforcement of them would be great but that's another debate..

Antoine

Le dim. 9 févr. 2020 à 15:40, Matt Corallo via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org> a écrit :

> Responding purely to one point as this may be sufficient to clear up
> lots of discussion:
>
> On 2/9/20 8:19 PM, Bryan Bishop via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> > Is Taproot just a probability assumption about the frequency and
> > likelihood of
> > the signature case over the script case? Is this a good assumption?  The
> BIP
> > only goes as far as to claim that the advantage is apparent if the
> outputs
> > *could be spent* as an N of N, but doesn't make representations about
> > how likely
> > that N of N case would be in practice compared to the script paths.
> Perhaps
> > among use cases, more than half of the ones we expect people to be doing
> > could be
> > spent as an N of N. But how frequently would that path get used?
> > Further, while
> > the *use cases* might skew toward things with N of N opt-out, we might
> > end up in
> > a power law case where it's the one case that doesn't use an N of N opt
> > out at
> > all (or at a de minimis level) that becomes very popular, thereby making
> > Taproot
> > more costly then beneficial.
> Its not just about the frequency and likelihood, no. If there is a
> clearly-provided optimization for this common case in the protocol, then
> it becomes further more likely that developers put in the additional
> effort required to make this possibility a reality. This has a very
> significant positive impact on user privacy, especially those who wish
> to utilize more advanced functionality in Bitcoin. Further, yes, it is
> anticipated that the N of N case is possible to take in the vast
> majority of deployed use-cases for advanced scripting systems, ensuring
> that it is maximally efficient to do so (and thereby encouraging
> developers to do so) is a key goal in this work.
>
> Matt
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 4056 bytes --]