From: Michael Naber <mickeybob@gmail•com>
To: Peter Todd <pete@petertodd•org>,
Mark Friedenbach <mark@friedenbach•org>,
Adam Back <adam@cypherspace•org>
Cc: bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] A Proposed Compromise to the Block Size Limit
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2015 13:25:14 -0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CALgxB7tsmHGiGuCmcdNuwjKxNfBpdq6U+x8eK=7sL6NekAfXow@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20150627163731.GA12820@muck>
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Global network consensus means that there is global network recognition
that a particular transaction has occurred and is irreversible. The
off-chain solutions you describe, while probably useful for other purposes,
do not exhibit this characteristic and so they are not global network
consensus networks.
Bitcoin Core scales as O(N), where N is the number of transactions. Can we
do better than this while still achieving global consensus?
On Sat, Jun 27, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Peter Todd <pete@petertodd•org> wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 27, 2015 at 12:09:16PM -0400, Michael Naber wrote:
> > The goal of Bitcoin Core is to meet the demand for global consensus as
> > effectively as possible. Please let's keep the conversation on how to
> best
> > meet that goal.
>
> Keep in mind that Andresen and Hearn both propose that the majority of
> Bitcoin users, even businesses, abandon the global consensus technology
> aspect of Bitcoin - running full nodes - and instead adopt trust
> technology instead - running SPV nodes.
>
> We're very much focused on meeting the demand for global consensus
> technology, but unfortunately global consensus is also has inherently
> O(n^2) scaling with current approaches available. Thus we have a fixed
> capacity system where access is mediated by supply and demand
> transaction fees.
>
> > The off-chain solutions you enumerate are are useful solutions in their
> > respective domains, but none of them solves the global consensus problem
> > with any greater efficiency than Bitcoin does.
>
> Solutions like (hub-and-spoke) payment channels, Lightning, etc. allow
> users of the global consensus technology in Bitcoin to use that
> technology in much more effcient ways, leveraging a relatively small
> amount of global consensus to do large numbers of transactions
> trustlessly.
>
> --
> 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org
> 0000000000000000007fc13ce02072d9cb2a6d51fae41fefcde7b3b283803d24
>
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2015-06-27 17:25 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 43+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2015-06-27 14:39 Michael Naber
2015-06-27 15:21 ` Peter Todd
2015-06-27 15:29 ` Randi Joseph
2015-06-27 15:32 ` Peter Todd
2015-06-27 16:19 ` Michael Naber
2015-06-27 17:20 ` Peter Todd
2015-06-27 17:26 ` Benjamin
2015-06-27 17:37 ` Peter Todd
2015-06-27 17:46 ` Benjamin
2015-06-27 17:54 ` Peter Todd
2015-06-27 17:58 ` Venzen Khaosan
2015-06-27 19:34 ` Benjamin
2015-06-27 15:33 ` Adam Back
2015-06-27 16:09 ` Michael Naber
2015-06-27 16:28 ` Mark Friedenbach
2015-06-27 16:37 ` Peter Todd
2015-06-27 17:25 ` Michael Naber [this message]
2015-06-27 17:34 ` Peter Todd
2015-06-27 18:02 ` Jameson Lopp
2015-06-27 18:47 ` Peter Todd
2015-06-28 5:34 Raystonn
2015-06-28 10:07 ` Adam Back
2015-06-28 10:29 ` Benjamin
2015-06-28 12:37 ` Adam Back
2015-06-28 16:32 ` Raystonn .
2015-06-28 17:12 ` Mark Friedenbach
2015-06-28 17:18 ` Benjamin
2015-06-28 17:29 ` Gavin Andresen
2015-06-28 17:45 ` Mark Friedenbach
2015-06-28 17:51 ` Adam Back
2015-06-28 18:58 ` Adam Back
2015-06-28 21:05 ` Gavin Andresen
2015-06-28 21:23 ` Michael Naber
2015-06-28 22:07 ` Adam Back
2015-06-29 0:59 ` Eric Lombrozo
2015-06-29 1:13 ` Eric Lombrozo
2015-06-29 1:45 ` Andy Schroder
2015-06-30 0:42 ` Tom Harding
2015-07-10 2:55 ` Tom Harding
2015-06-28 17:53 ` Jorge Timón
2015-06-28 19:22 ` Andrew Lapp
2015-06-28 19:40 ` Benjamin
2015-06-28 12:32 ` Milly Bitcoin
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