* [bitcoin-dev] BIPS proposal for implementing AML-KYC in bitcoin
@ 2015-08-27 8:10 prabhat
2015-08-27 8:15 ` Patrick Strateman
` (3 more replies)
0 siblings, 4 replies; 24+ messages in thread
From: prabhat @ 2015-08-27 8:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: bitcoin-dev
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Hi,
I am proposing to create a AML-KYC module to control the network and also
qualify use cases in OFAC compliant way.
Here is the attached doc.
Please provide your feedback and suggestions.
Best,
Prabhat Kumar Singh
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Title: A AML KYC enforcement mechanism to regulate OFAC(and similar others) from Mining
==Abstract==
The document gives specification for dealing with mining and transactions in sactioned countries to follow OFAC regulations in Bitcoin.
==Motivation==
For so long, miners in sanctioned countries or miners with illicit motives have been able to enmasse wealth by bitcoins which might or might not have been funding wrong doings of one or many non-mainstream social activities, like terrorism, human traffiking, drugs, rights abuse and many more of similar or advance nature. It is important for bitcoin community to realise the responsibility to put a control on such elements and at the same time uphold the values of bitcoin's decentralised and democratic money system. The same applies for transactions orgininating to or from such sanctioned countries.
==Specification==
To counter this problem, an bitcoin account can be centrally created in control and/or oversight of Bitcoin Foundation which should be allowed to do 0-sum transactions with a Memo Flag of BLOCK or ALLOW. And empty memo transaction has no impact. And this should be considered in consensus protocol for transaction confirmation, to BLOCK or ALLOW transactions in an account if the immediate previous transaction is BLOCK or ALLOW in that account, respectively.
==Rationale==
The Bitcoin Foundation will act as fair play party and enforcement body to control the misuse of vast financial powers which bitcoin has. The BLOCK and ALLOW is end action of a possible upstream review process for every account on the bitcoin network. The freedom of unchecked mining, poses a certain threat today and even bigger threats in future.
Even if someone is BLOCKed due to certain clerical mistakes, the process has ALLOW functionality. And if law enforcement comes with more substantial reasons of BLOCKing an account, the same be done multiple times.
We are a world of human beings with rationale, who have abilities to talk, listen and communicate. Therefore, a human to human touch can never be negated in however powerful computerisation.
==Backward compatibility==
The new consensus protocol could seem unfavourable to some due to many reasons. After listening to all parties, even if some nodes would opt to stay in old protocol, they won't be able to join the new protocol ever. This would be a hard fork and natural cleanup of bitcoin protocol from illicit miners and users.
==Implementation==
The implementation is in progress. The detail code will be shared soon.
==Acknowledgements==
It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence.- Mahatma Gandhi
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread* Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIPS proposal for implementing AML-KYC in bitcoin
2015-08-27 8:10 [bitcoin-dev] BIPS proposal for implementing AML-KYC in bitcoin prabhat
@ 2015-08-27 8:15 ` Patrick Strateman
2015-08-27 9:33 ` s7r
2015-08-27 9:04 ` Ahmed Zsales
` (2 subsequent siblings)
3 siblings, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread
From: Patrick Strateman @ 2015-08-27 8:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: bitcoin-dev
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Are you aware of the prior work in this field?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1qmbtu/mike_hearn_chair_of_the_bitcoin_foundations_law/
On 08/27/2015 01:10 AM, prabhat via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am proposing to create a AML-KYC module to control the network and
> also qualify use cases in OFAC compliant way.
> Here is the attached doc.
>
> Please provide your feedback and suggestions.
>
> Best,
> Prabhat Kumar Singh
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread* Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIPS proposal for implementing AML-KYC in bitcoin
2015-08-27 8:15 ` Patrick Strateman
@ 2015-08-27 9:33 ` s7r
0 siblings, 0 replies; 24+ messages in thread
From: s7r @ 2015-08-27 9:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: bitcoin-dev
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256
Hello,
Please stop with the nonsense. Bitcoin is a decentralized payment
network. It operates globally, so neither jurisdiction can apply to it
and have effects. It is the sole responsibility of all the
users/businesses involved in Bitcoin to comply with their local
regulations while using Bitcoin. Trying to somehow standardize this
compliance at the backbone network level will be impossible in the
first place, and even if it was possible it would be a _huge_ mistake.
The word 'Bitcoin' already rings a bell in most places of the world
where there is a reasonable level of technology available. It is
powerful and we should continue the work to improve it. No law
enforcement authority or govt. branch is asking more than for
users/businesses to comply with the regulations that bind to them.
Someone in Belize for example does not have same compliance requests
with someone in Germany - which is why this is not even a subject to
be discussed on bicoin-dev mailing list. It is unique/custom for each
user/business, the requirements depending on their jurisdiction.
On 8/27/2015 11:15 AM, Patrick Strateman via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> Are you aware of the prior work in this field?
>
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1qmbtu/mike_hearn_chair_of_the_bitcoin_foundations_law/
>
> On 08/27/2015 01:10 AM, prabhat via bitcoin-dev wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am proposing to create a AML-KYC module to control the network
>> and also qualify use cases in OFAC compliant way. Here is the
>> attached doc.
>>
>> Please provide your feedback and suggestions.
>>
>> Best, Prabhat Kumar Singh
>>
>>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIPS proposal for implementing AML-KYC in bitcoin
2015-08-27 8:10 [bitcoin-dev] BIPS proposal for implementing AML-KYC in bitcoin prabhat
2015-08-27 8:15 ` Patrick Strateman
@ 2015-08-27 9:04 ` Ahmed Zsales
[not found] ` <CAC0TF==iEPzMpjcGO+ukV6rVkM-4yH3jX0Obu4Aint1eWzK5bQ@mail.gmail.com>
2015-08-28 2:00 ` odinn
3 siblings, 0 replies; 24+ messages in thread
From: Ahmed Zsales @ 2015-08-27 9:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: prabhat, Bitcoin Dev
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I would prefer not to download an attachment.
Generally and without having the benefit of reading your document, AML and
or KYC requirements are treated on a jurisdiction by jurisdiction basis.
You would probably need to factor obtaining a universal agreement between
all of the governments and regional enforcement bodies of the world on the
nature and scope of an acceptable set of policies before attempting to
attach rules to the protocol. Clearly, when one country unilaterally places
politicians of another country on banned lists and vice versa, for example,
would create some problems with implementation and automating checks
against banned lists produced by each country.
While you could apply a 'home rule' approach, you would be pushing
regulatory controls down to individuals transacting between each other
without having to go through any regulated intermediaries. This means you
have no way to enforce KYC or verify that the details are correct unless
you create a system of third party checkers in each country who would
enable transactions to proceed. To overcome all of this you would probably
need some identity verification system in place first and to add extra fees
into the network to pay for the maintenance of the system.
As has already been pointed out, the above would lead to individual coins
being tainted with previous ownership details creating the possibility for
blacklists rendering some coins worthless and creating the possibility of
these coins being passed on to unsuspecting users. All this goes against
the spirit of monetary systems, so you are back to regulating end points as
and when users come into contact with regulated entities.
Lastly, it might be worth knowing that criminal liability can be placed on
individuals responsible for implementing AML and KYC procedures and
policies that do not work or allow criminals to circumvent the systems of
controls.
On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 9:10 AM, prabhat via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am proposing to create a AML-KYC module to control the network and also
> qualify use cases in OFAC compliant way.
> Here is the attached doc.
>
> Please provide your feedback and suggestions.
>
> Best,
> Prabhat Kumar Singh
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread[parent not found: <CAC0TF==iEPzMpjcGO+ukV6rVkM-4yH3jX0Obu4Aint1eWzK5bQ@mail.gmail.com>]
* Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIPS proposal for implementing AML-KYC in bitcoin
[not found] ` <CAC0TF==iEPzMpjcGO+ukV6rVkM-4yH3jX0Obu4Aint1eWzK5bQ@mail.gmail.com>
@ 2015-08-27 12:06 ` prabhat
2015-08-27 12:14 ` jl2012
0 siblings, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread
From: prabhat @ 2015-08-27 12:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Chris D'Costa; +Cc: bitcoin-dev
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Thanks for the comments and feedback.
I have previously read those threads as suggested by some members.
In relation with transactions, I do agree with suggestions that they should
be left on their own, and assumed that people would work in the best
interest of themselves and society. Everything is debatable, but let's
agree with it.
But for miners, I can think of no other option to stop those who are
hashing and winning blocks+transaction fees and not in safe country
list(directly or indirectly).
Some have asked for proofs, but that is tough to substantiate. I have
hints, honestly.
Would you sit idle if Haqqani network is funded by bitcoin mining?
We have created a billion dollar market by bitcoin and ,sadly, for everyone
without borders. Sick, I am saying this, but freedom is more of
responsibility than celebrations of open hugs. And those who don't care
about it are threat for you and us, equally.
Folks, suggest something, scrap my idea, but let's build something to save
this ecosystem, otherwise it is impossible to realise this dream of
decentralized currency. Other coins and protocols are there who may
implement something, and egoists always meet the ashes.
Criticize with open mind.
Best,
Prabhat Kumar Singh
On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 3:43 PM, Chris D'Costa <chrisjdcosta@gmail•com>
wrote:
> What evidence do you have that there is 'illicit miners and users' and
> that there are no illicit users of the non-bitcoin financial systems?
>
> I can buy drugs openly in Amsterdam for Euros, but cannot in the UK for
> sterling.
>
> Is the act of buying drugs somewhere in the world illicit activity or not?
>
>
>
> On 27 August 2015 at 10:10, prabhat via bitcoin-dev <
> bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am proposing to create a AML-KYC module to control the network and also
>> qualify use cases in OFAC compliant way.
>> Here is the attached doc.
>>
>> Please provide your feedback and suggestions.
>>
>> Best,
>> Prabhat Kumar Singh
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>> bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org
>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>
>>
>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread* Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIPS proposal for implementing AML-KYC in bitcoin
2015-08-27 12:06 ` prabhat
@ 2015-08-27 12:14 ` jl2012
2015-08-27 12:19 ` prabhat
0 siblings, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread
From: jl2012 @ 2015-08-27 12:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: prabhat; +Cc: bitcoin-dev
Very good, I can't wait to see it. Please code it up and submit a pull
request to github. Don't expect someone will do it for you.
prabhat via bitcoin-dev 於 2015-08-27 08:06 寫到:
> snip.
> Folks, suggest something, scrap my idea, but let's build something to
> save this ecosystem, otherwise it is impossible to realise this dream
> of decentralized currency. Other coins and protocols are there who may
> implement something, and egoists always meet the ashes.
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIPS proposal for implementing AML-KYC in bitcoin
2015-08-27 12:14 ` jl2012
@ 2015-08-27 12:19 ` prabhat
2015-08-27 13:28 ` Gavin Andresen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread
From: prabhat @ 2015-08-27 12:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: jl2012; +Cc: bitcoin-dev
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Yes, on it.
Prabhat Kumar Singh
On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 5:44 PM, <jl2012@xbt•hk> wrote:
> Very good, I can't wait to see it. Please code it up and submit a pull
> request to github. Don't expect someone will do it for you.
>
> prabhat via bitcoin-dev 於 2015-08-27 08:06 寫到:
>
> snip.
>>
>
>
> Folks, suggest something, scrap my idea, but let's build something to
>> save this ecosystem, otherwise it is impossible to realise this dream
>> of decentralized currency. Other coins and protocols are there who may
>> implement something, and egoists always meet the ashes.
>>
>>
>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIPS proposal for implementing AML-KYC in bitcoin
2015-08-27 12:19 ` prabhat
@ 2015-08-27 13:28 ` Gavin Andresen
2015-08-27 13:39 ` prabhat
0 siblings, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread
From: Gavin Andresen @ 2015-08-27 13:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: prabhat; +Cc: Bitcoin Dev
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Have you talked with anybody at the Bitcoin Foundation about this proposal?
As Chief Scientist of the Foundation, I am strongly opposed to any proposal
that puts the Foundation in a position of centralized authority, so this is
unacceptable: "The Bitcoin Foundation will act as fair play party and
enforcement body to control the misuse of vast financial powers which
bitcoin has."
The idea that a central organization can be trusted to keep secrets secure
is just fundamentally wrong. In the very recent past we have seen
government organizations fail in that task (the NSA, the OPM) and we see
commercial organizations that SHOULD be highly motivated to do a good job
also fail (e.g. the Ashley Madison leak).
Even if it were technically possible, I would be opposed because
decentralization is a bedrock principle of Bitcoin.
--
--
Gavin Andresen
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIPS proposal for implementing AML-KYC in bitcoin
2015-08-27 13:28 ` Gavin Andresen
@ 2015-08-27 13:39 ` prabhat
2015-08-27 13:48 ` Gavin Andresen
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 24+ messages in thread
From: prabhat @ 2015-08-27 13:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Gavin Andresen; +Cc: Bitcoin Dev
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Fine point.
So where is the solution? What to do?
Prabhat Kumar Singh
Prabhat Kumar Singh
On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 6:58 PM, Gavin Andresen <gavinandresen@gmail•com>
wrote:
> Have you talked with anybody at the Bitcoin Foundation about this proposal?
>
> As Chief Scientist of the Foundation, I am strongly opposed to any
> proposal that puts the Foundation in a position of centralized authority,
> so this is unacceptable: "The Bitcoin Foundation will act as fair play
> party and enforcement body to control the misuse of vast financial powers
> which bitcoin has."
>
> The idea that a central organization can be trusted to keep secrets secure
> is just fundamentally wrong. In the very recent past we have seen
> government organizations fail in that task (the NSA, the OPM) and we see
> commercial organizations that SHOULD be highly motivated to do a good job
> also fail (e.g. the Ashley Madison leak).
>
> Even if it were technically possible, I would be opposed because
> decentralization is a bedrock principle of Bitcoin.
>
> --
> --
> Gavin Andresen
>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread* Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIPS proposal for implementing AML-KYC in bitcoin
2015-08-27 13:39 ` prabhat
@ 2015-08-27 13:48 ` Gavin Andresen
2015-08-27 16:06 ` Milly Bitcoin
2015-08-27 17:33 ` prabhat
2015-08-27 14:02 ` Chris Pacia
2015-08-28 2:09 ` odinn
2 siblings, 2 replies; 24+ messages in thread
From: Gavin Andresen @ 2015-08-27 13:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: prabhat; +Cc: Bitcoin Dev
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On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 9:39 AM, prabhat <prabhatkr@gmail•com> wrote:
> So where is the solution? What to do?
>
This is a development list; organizations like https://coincenter.org/ work
on high-level policy issues.
Last I heard, competent law enforcement organizations said they were
perfectly capable of tracking down criminals using Bitcoin using
traditional investigative techniques (like infiltrating criminal
organizations or setting up honeypots). Given how many "dark markets" have
either disappeared or been taken down, it seems they are correct.
--
--
Gavin Andresen
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIPS proposal for implementing AML-KYC in bitcoin
2015-08-27 13:48 ` Gavin Andresen
@ 2015-08-27 16:06 ` Milly Bitcoin
2015-08-27 17:33 ` prabhat
1 sibling, 0 replies; 24+ messages in thread
From: Milly Bitcoin @ 2015-08-27 16:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: bitcoin-dev
> So where is the solution? What to do?
AML-KYC is mostly something that sits on top of the Bitcoin protocol.
Take Coinase, inc. as an example. They check bank accounts before they
open your account and they link your Bitcoin address to your account in
their database. Then they ask for an explanation of why you are using
the account. Then they track your coins to a certain extent once you
actually buy Bitcoins. None of these activities are directly involving
the protocol or would require changes to the Bitcoin system.
What you can do is develop standards for using Bitcoin and entities that
need to follow AML-KYC can choose to follow those standards if they want
when they conduct business using Bitcoin. You can add a small amount of
extraneous data to transactions that could show you followed some
AML-KYC procedure. If you did that you could have a "white list" of
complaint transactions rather than a "black list" of non-compliant
transactions as you seem to be proposing. I am not sure how you would
actually do something like that or how it would work but it is an
interesting concept (not necessarily good, but interesting).
Russ
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIPS proposal for implementing AML-KYC in bitcoin
2015-08-27 13:48 ` Gavin Andresen
2015-08-27 16:06 ` Milly Bitcoin
@ 2015-08-27 17:33 ` prabhat
2015-08-27 18:55 ` Oliver Petruzel
1 sibling, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread
From: prabhat @ 2015-08-27 17:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Gavin Andresen; +Cc: Bitcoin Dev
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So you mean that,
1. Govt agencies already know about everything and anything this subject
is about, but passively.
2. Due to passive nature, the actions are post incident and not pre. So
there is a risk of many ticking time-bombs which some JB (Jack Bauer or
James Bond or Jai Singh Rathore) would diffuse. Sorry for being dramatic,
the purpose is to make the point, and nothing else.
3. The subjected proposal doesn't breach the decentralisation, but just
not like swiss democracy.
I am not a legal expert, but know this much that there are 2 kinds of
crimes, one against liberty and other against life. Most of online privacy
advocacy is for liberty. But money is attached to life and not liberty. So
this has to change. It means life for many and many depend on it.
And the appeal is, Let us get active.
PS: I do not own much of bitcoins to be an advocate, but many others do and
any mayhem would affect me somehow, even if in farthest of world.
Best,
Prabhat Kumar Singh
On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 7:18 PM, Gavin Andresen <gavinandresen@gmail•com>
wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 9:39 AM, prabhat <prabhatkr@gmail•com> wrote:
>
>> So where is the solution? What to do?
>>
>
> This is a development list; organizations like https://coincenter.org/
> work on high-level policy issues.
>
> Last I heard, competent law enforcement organizations said they were
> perfectly capable of tracking down criminals using Bitcoin using
> traditional investigative techniques (like infiltrating criminal
> organizations or setting up honeypots). Given how many "dark markets" have
> either disappeared or been taken down, it seems they are correct.
>
> --
> --
> Gavin Andresen
>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIPS proposal for implementing AML-KYC in bitcoin
2015-08-27 17:33 ` prabhat
@ 2015-08-27 18:55 ` Oliver Petruzel
2015-08-27 18:56 ` prabhat
0 siblings, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread
From: Oliver Petruzel @ 2015-08-27 18:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: prabhat; +Cc: Bitcoin Dev
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>>>But money is attached to life and not liberty
I can't truly express in this email exactly how much I personally disagree
with that statement/belief because I don't think the dev mailing list is
the appropriate forum for such philosophical discussions.
I will say this, though: I think you've missed much of the point of Bitcoin
-- which "monetary or economic liberty" might perfectly describe -- and, I
sincerely hope that proposals such as yours never gain ANY traction in this
community.
As far as I'm concerned, your ideas are the antithesis of this entire
experiment.
I'd be glad to have this discussion over a beer and hookah any time, but I
won't take up any more space or time with it here.
Oliver
PS: sorry everyone! I just couldn't let this one go without comment... I'll
go back to my usual lurking and learning now. :)
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIPS proposal for implementing AML-KYC in bitcoin
2015-08-27 18:55 ` Oliver Petruzel
@ 2015-08-27 18:56 ` prabhat
2015-08-27 19:42 ` Dave Scotese
0 siblings, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread
From: prabhat @ 2015-08-27 18:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Oliver Petruzel; +Cc: Bitcoin Dev
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I Truly respect your opinions.
Prabhat Kumar Singh
On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 12:25 AM, Oliver Petruzel <opetruzel@gmail•com>
wrote:
> >>>But money is attached to life and not liberty
>
> I can't truly express in this email exactly how much I personally disagree
> with that statement/belief because I don't think the dev mailing list is
> the appropriate forum for such philosophical discussions.
>
> I will say this, though: I think you've missed much of the point of
> Bitcoin -- which "monetary or economic liberty" might perfectly describe --
> and, I sincerely hope that proposals such as yours never gain ANY traction
> in this community.
>
> As far as I'm concerned, your ideas are the antithesis of this entire
> experiment.
>
> I'd be glad to have this discussion over a beer and hookah any time, but I
> won't take up any more space or time with it here.
>
> Oliver
>
> PS: sorry everyone! I just couldn't let this one go without comment...
> I'll go back to my usual lurking and learning now. :)
>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIPS proposal for implementing AML-KYC in bitcoin
2015-08-27 18:56 ` prabhat
@ 2015-08-27 19:42 ` Dave Scotese
0 siblings, 0 replies; 24+ messages in thread
From: Dave Scotese @ 2015-08-27 19:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bitcoin Dev
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Prabhat,
You write about OFAC, KYC, and AML.
The *Office of Foreign Assets Control* (*OFAC*) is a financial intelligence
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_intelligence> and enforcement
agency of the U.S. government charged with planning and execution of
economic and trade sanctions
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_sanctions> in support of U.S. national
security
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_of_the_United_States>
and foreign
policy <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_policy_of_the_United_States>
objectives.
KYC means "Know Your Customer" which is something every intelligent
businessman does when his deals are significant. Support for "KYC" is
built into reality and needs no qualification, compliance, or control.
AML means "Anti-Money-Laundering" which smacks of overreach. Laundering
money serves to hide behaviors that authorities dislike, many of which are
actually helping the world. Neomoney says it best
<http://neomoney.net/?p=426>: "Indeed, money laundering describes a wide
range of activities that are undertaken by innocent participants in the
economy. Authorities’ growing expectation of a right to violate our privacy
to enforce their laws, and an expectation that we do nothing to protect
ourselves from that violation of privacy, lie at the heart of money
laundering propaganda."
So your work comes across as that of someone who has been duped into doing
the bidding of the largest and most successful criminal organization on
Earth. I do not accuse you of being deceived because no one can be blamed
for the damage done to them by such a powerful parasite. I wish only to
open your eyes, or, at least what worked for me, your ears
<http://peacerevolution.podomatic.com/>.
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIPS proposal for implementing AML-KYC in bitcoin
2015-08-27 13:39 ` prabhat
2015-08-27 13:48 ` Gavin Andresen
@ 2015-08-27 14:02 ` Chris Pacia
2015-08-27 16:02 ` Sergio Demian Lerner
2015-08-28 2:09 ` odinn
2 siblings, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread
From: Chris Pacia @ 2015-08-27 14:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: bitcoin-dev
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 133 bytes --]
On 08/27/2015 09:39 AM, prabhat via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> Fine point.
>
> So where is the solution? What to do?
How about nothing.
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIPS proposal for implementing AML-KYC in bitcoin
2015-08-27 13:39 ` prabhat
2015-08-27 13:48 ` Gavin Andresen
2015-08-27 14:02 ` Chris Pacia
@ 2015-08-28 2:09 ` odinn
2 siblings, 0 replies; 24+ messages in thread
From: odinn @ 2015-08-28 2:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: prabhat, Gavin Andresen; +Cc: Bitcoin Dev
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Well,
On 08/27/2015 06:39 AM, prabhat via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> Fine point.
>
> So where is the solution? What to do?
You could study bitcoin some more and understand what it is instead of
proposing to "implement AML-KYC in bitcoin" which shows vast ignorance
about it.
That's probably what you should do.
>
> Prabhat Kumar Singh
>
> Prabhat Kumar Singh
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 6:58 PM, Gavin Andresen
> <gavinandresen@gmail•com <mailto:gavinandresen@gmail•com>> wrote:
>
> Have you talked with anybody at the Bitcoin Foundation about this
> proposal?
>
> As Chief Scientist of the Foundation, I am strongly opposed to any
> proposal that puts the Foundation in a position of centralized
> authority, so this is unacceptable: "The Bitcoin Foundation will
> act as fair play party and enforcement body to control the misuse
> of vast financial powers which bitcoin has."
>
> The idea that a central organization can be trusted to keep
> secrets secure is just fundamentally wrong. In the very recent past
> we have seen government organizations fail in that task (the NSA,
> the OPM) and we see commercial organizations that SHOULD be highly
> motivated to do a good job also fail (e.g. the Ashley Madison
> leak).
>
> Even if it were technically possible, I would be opposed because
> decentralization is a bedrock principle of Bitcoin.
>
> -- -- Gavin Andresen
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________ bitcoin-dev mailing
> list bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
- --
http://abis.io ~
"a protocol concept to enable decentralization
and expansion of a giving economy, and a new social good"
https://keybase.io/odinn
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIPS proposal for implementing AML-KYC in bitcoin
2015-08-27 8:10 [bitcoin-dev] BIPS proposal for implementing AML-KYC in bitcoin prabhat
` (2 preceding siblings ...)
[not found] ` <CAC0TF==iEPzMpjcGO+ukV6rVkM-4yH3jX0Obu4Aint1eWzK5bQ@mail.gmail.com>
@ 2015-08-28 2:00 ` odinn
2015-08-28 2:17 ` Yifu Guo
2015-08-30 12:47 ` s7r
3 siblings, 2 replies; 24+ messages in thread
From: odinn @ 2015-08-28 2:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: prabhat, bitcoin-dev
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
No.
On 08/27/2015 01:10 AM, prabhat via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am proposing to create a AML-KYC module to control the network
> and also qualify use cases in OFAC compliant way. Here is the
> attached doc.
>
> Please provide your feedback and suggestions.
>
> Best, Prabhat Kumar Singh
>
>
> _______________________________________________ bitcoin-dev mailing
> list bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
- --
http://abis.io ~
"a protocol concept to enable decentralization
and expansion of a giving economy, and a new social good"
https://keybase.io/odinn
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread* Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIPS proposal for implementing AML-KYC in bitcoin
2015-08-28 2:00 ` odinn
@ 2015-08-28 2:17 ` Yifu Guo
2015-08-30 12:47 ` s7r
1 sibling, 0 replies; 24+ messages in thread
From: Yifu Guo @ 2015-08-28 2:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: odinn; +Cc: prabhat, bitcoin-dev
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2623 bytes --]
I've done some work in this area. see http://coinvalidation.com/ it's
currently shelved due to lack of legal and regulatory framework.
1. this should not be directly implemented on the protocol level. I believe
its Jeff Garzik who once said "stolen bitcoins is a legal problem, not a
technical one." Legal problems are not technical problems.
2. it is the responsibility of company and individuals to answer questions.
example, stolen bitcoins gets send to address X, and address X is a payment
address of company Y. it is company Y's responsibility to answer to
corresponding agencies responsible. What actions comes out of that is yet
to be determent.
other examples such as, you are using a wallet app, and sending bitcoin
payments to a known malicious address. ( e.g. crypto-locker or other
malware address that replaces the output address.), does the wallet app
warn its users?
Again, while these are not technical problems, they will need answers
eventually. I'll be happy to discuss further off this mailing list as it is
off-topic.
On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 10:00 PM, odinn via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> No.
>
> On 08/27/2015 01:10 AM, prabhat via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am proposing to create a AML-KYC module to control the network
> > and also qualify use cases in OFAC compliant way. Here is the
> > attached doc.
> >
> > Please provide your feedback and suggestions.
> >
> > Best, Prabhat Kumar Singh
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________ bitcoin-dev mailing
> > list bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org
> > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
> >
>
> - --
> http://abis.io ~
> "a protocol concept to enable decentralization
> and expansion of a giving economy, and a new social good"
> https://keybase.io/odinn
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> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
--
*Yifu Guo*
*"Life is an everlasting self-improvement."*
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIPS proposal for implementing AML-KYC in bitcoin
2015-08-28 2:00 ` odinn
2015-08-28 2:17 ` Yifu Guo
@ 2015-08-30 12:47 ` s7r
2015-08-30 15:16 ` Vinyas
2015-08-31 11:28 ` [bitcoin-dev] " prabhat
1 sibling, 2 replies; 24+ messages in thread
From: s7r @ 2015-08-30 12:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: odinn, prabhat, bitcoin-dev
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256
2^256 x _NO_
On 8/28/2015 5:00 AM, odinn via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> No.
>
> On 08/27/2015 01:10 AM, prabhat via bitcoin-dev wrote:
>> Hi,
>
>> I am proposing to create a AML-KYC module to control the network
>> and also qualify use cases in OFAC compliant way. Here is the
>> attached doc.
>
>> Please provide your feedback and suggestions.
>
>> Best, Prabhat Kumar Singh
>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIPS proposal for implementing AML-KYC in bitcoin
2015-08-30 12:47 ` s7r
@ 2015-08-30 15:16 ` Vinyas
2015-08-30 15:56 ` [bitcoin-dev] [META] Mailing list etiquette " jl2012
2015-08-31 11:28 ` [bitcoin-dev] " prabhat
1 sibling, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread
From: Vinyas @ 2015-08-30 15:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: bitcoin-dev
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1235 bytes --]
No No
On Aug 30, 2015, 14:47, at 14:47, s7r via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA256
>
>2^256 x _NO_
>
>On 8/28/2015 5:00 AM, odinn via bitcoin-dev wrote:
>> No.
>>
>> On 08/27/2015 01:10 AM, prabhat via bitcoin-dev wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>
>>> I am proposing to create a AML-KYC module to control the network
>>> and also qualify use cases in OFAC compliant way. Here is the
>>> attached doc.
>>
>>> Please provide your feedback and suggestions.
>>
>>> Best, Prabhat Kumar Singh
>>
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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>-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>_______________________________________________
>bitcoin-dev mailing list
>bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org
>https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIPS proposal for implementing AML-KYC in bitcoin
2015-08-30 12:47 ` s7r
2015-08-30 15:16 ` Vinyas
@ 2015-08-31 11:28 ` prabhat
1 sibling, 0 replies; 24+ messages in thread
From: prabhat @ 2015-08-31 11:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: s7r; +Cc: Bitcoin Dev
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1297 bytes --]
Thanks for nice decentralized discussion.
This wasn't and isn't a parody.
Mining is insecure (for society) and security is passive.
All the raised points are proven by esteemed members themselves.
Closing from my side.
Thanks,
God Bless,
Bye
Prabhat Kumar Singh
On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 6:17 PM, s7r <s7r@sky-ip•org> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
>
> 2^256 x _NO_
>
> On 8/28/2015 5:00 AM, odinn via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> > No.
> >
> > On 08/27/2015 01:10 AM, prabhat via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >
> >> I am proposing to create a AML-KYC module to control the network
> >> and also qualify use cases in OFAC compliant way. Here is the
> >> attached doc.
> >
> >> Please provide your feedback and suggestions.
> >
> >> Best, Prabhat Kumar Singh
> >
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>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2015-08-31 11:28 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 24+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2015-08-27 8:10 [bitcoin-dev] BIPS proposal for implementing AML-KYC in bitcoin prabhat
2015-08-27 8:15 ` Patrick Strateman
2015-08-27 9:33 ` s7r
2015-08-27 9:04 ` Ahmed Zsales
[not found] ` <CAC0TF==iEPzMpjcGO+ukV6rVkM-4yH3jX0Obu4Aint1eWzK5bQ@mail.gmail.com>
2015-08-27 12:06 ` prabhat
2015-08-27 12:14 ` jl2012
2015-08-27 12:19 ` prabhat
2015-08-27 13:28 ` Gavin Andresen
2015-08-27 13:39 ` prabhat
2015-08-27 13:48 ` Gavin Andresen
2015-08-27 16:06 ` Milly Bitcoin
2015-08-27 17:33 ` prabhat
2015-08-27 18:55 ` Oliver Petruzel
2015-08-27 18:56 ` prabhat
2015-08-27 19:42 ` Dave Scotese
2015-08-27 14:02 ` Chris Pacia
2015-08-27 16:02 ` Sergio Demian Lerner
2015-08-28 2:09 ` odinn
2015-08-28 2:00 ` odinn
2015-08-28 2:17 ` Yifu Guo
2015-08-30 12:47 ` s7r
2015-08-30 15:16 ` Vinyas
2015-08-30 15:56 ` [bitcoin-dev] [META] Mailing list etiquette " jl2012
2015-08-31 11:28 ` [bitcoin-dev] " prabhat
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