I don't want to manage a "business relationship" with every shop I buy
something from. That's way too much effort. There can certainly be cases
where a more complicated relationship is created by bootstrapping off
BIP70, perhaps with an extension, but nailing the ordinary buyer-to-seller
relationship seems like a good scope for BIP70 for now.


On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 12:45 PM, Tamas Blummer <tamas@bitsofproof.com>wrote:

> Yes, you begin to see that the payment protocol, as is has a too narrow
> scope of a web cart - customer, and does not even fit that.
>
> It is not about payment requests but about business relationships. We need
> a protocol that deals with that concept instead of individual requests,
> so we really get out of the hell of addresses. Business relationships are
> terminated by the parties at their own and not bey algorithms and timeouts.
>
> Regards,
>
> Tamas Blummer
> http://bitsofproof.com
>
> On 28.03.2014, at 12:38, Wladimir <laanwj@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 12:25 PM, Andreas Schildbach <
> andreas@schildbach.de> wrote:
>
>> I see the problem.
>>
>> However, I don't see how PaymentDetails can be an answer. None of the
>> fields (other than outputs and network) can be known in advance (at the
>> time of the initial payment).
>>
>> You're probably aiming for an expires field? How would you refund a
>> payment after expiry? Note its not your choice wether to refund a
>> payment -- it can be ordered by a court years after the payment happened.
>>
>
> Communication between the merchant and buyer would be needed in this case.
>
> I'd say that would be not unreasonable if something is to be refunded
> after a year or more. After all, people may have moved, bank accounts
> changed, even outside the bitcoin world.
>
> It should probably not be accepted to set a very low expiration time for
> the refund address, like <3 months, as it's as bad as not providing a
> refund address at all and brings back all the pre-BIP70 confusion.
>
> Wladimir
>
>
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