From: "Raystonn ." <raystonn@hotmail•com>
To: "Tier Nolan" <tier.nolan@gmail•com>
Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists•sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposed alternatives to the 20MB stepfunction
Date: Fri, 29 May 2015 09:39:29 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <COL131-DS8AE5724250D730A8B03C5CDC90@phx.gbl> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAE-z3OU8Vtmi_UK=nF1UNLsXCwd17mKDMS1qKudYB_kwDbOguA@mail.gmail.com>
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Regarding Tier’s proposal: The lower security you mention for extended blocks would delay, possibly forever, the larger blocks maximum block size that we want for the entire network. That doesn’t sound like an optimal solution.
Regarding consensus for larger maximum block size, what we are seeing on this list is typical of what we see in the U.S. Congress. Support for changes by the stakeholders (support for bills by the citizens as a whole) has become irrelevant to the probability of these changes being adopted. Lobbyists have all the sway in getting their policies enacted. In our case, I would bet on some lobbying of core developers by wealthy miners.
Someone recently proposed that secret ballots could help eliminate the power of lobbyists in Congress. Nobody invests in that which cannot be confirmed. Secret ballots mean the vote you are buying cannot be confirmed. Perhaps this will work for Bitcoin Core as well.
From: Tier Nolan
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2015 7:22 AM
Cc: Bitcoin Dev
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposed alternatives to the 20MB stepfunction
On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 3:09 PM, Tier Nolan <tier.nolan@gmail•com> wrote:
On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 1:39 PM, Gavin Andresen <gavinandresen@gmail•com> wrote:
But if there is still no consensus among developers but the "bigger blocks now" movement is successful, I'll ask for help getting big miners to do the same, and use the soft-fork block version voting mechanism to (hopefully) get a majority and then a super-majority willing to produce bigger blocks. The purpose of that process is to prove to any doubters that they'd better start supporting bigger blocks or they'll be left behind, and to give them a chance to upgrade before that happens.
How do you define that the movement is successful?
Sorry again, I keep auto-sending from gmail when trying to delete.
In theory, using the "nuclear option", the block size can be increased via soft fork.
Version 4 blocks would contain the hash of the a valid extended block in the coinbase.
<block height> <32 byte extended hash>
To send coins to the auxiliary block, you send them to some template.
OP_P2SH_EXTENDED <scriptPubKey hash> OP_TRUE
This transaction can be spent by anyone (under the current rules). The soft fork would lock the transaction output unless it transferred money from the extended block.
To unlock the transaction output, you need to include the txid of transaction(s) in the extended block and signature(s) in the scriptSig.
The transaction output can be spent in the extended block using P2SH against the scriptPubKey hash.
This means that people can choose to move their money to the extended block. It might have lower security than leaving it in the root chain.
The extended chain could use the updated script language too.
This is obviously more complex than just increasing the size though, but it could be a fallback option if no consensus is reached. It has the advantage of giving people a choice. They can move their money to the extended chain or not, as they wish.
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2015-05-29 16:40 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 64+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2015-05-08 7:20 [Bitcoin-development] Proposed alternatives to the 20MB step function Matt Whitlock
2015-05-08 10:15 ` Mike Hearn
2015-05-08 10:30 ` Clément Elbaz
2015-05-08 12:32 ` Joel Joonatan Kaartinen
2015-05-08 12:48 ` Matt Whitlock
2015-05-08 13:24 ` Matt Whitlock
2015-05-08 12:48 ` Gavin Andresen
2015-05-08 16:51 ` Peter Todd
2015-05-08 22:36 ` Joel Joonatan Kaartinen
2015-05-09 18:30 ` Peter Todd
2015-05-08 15:57 ` Alex Mizrahi
2015-05-08 16:55 ` Bryan Bishop
2015-05-08 20:33 ` Mark Friedenbach
2015-05-08 22:43 ` Aaron Voisine
2015-05-08 22:45 ` Mark Friedenbach
2015-05-08 23:15 ` Aaron Voisine
2015-05-08 23:58 ` Mark Friedenbach
2015-05-09 3:36 ` Gregory Maxwell
2015-05-09 11:58 ` Gavin Andresen
2015-05-09 13:49 ` Tier Nolan
2015-05-10 17:36 ` Owen Gunden
2015-05-10 18:10 ` Mark Friedenbach
2015-05-10 21:21 ` Gavin Andresen
2015-05-10 21:33 ` Gregory Maxwell
2015-05-10 21:56 ` Rob Golding
2015-05-13 10:43 ` Tier Nolan
2015-05-16 0:22 ` Rusty Russell
2015-05-16 11:09 ` Tier Nolan
2015-05-18 1:42 ` Rusty Russell
2015-05-19 8:59 ` Tier Nolan
2015-05-10 21:48 ` Thomas Voegtlin
2015-05-10 22:31 ` Mark Friedenbach
2015-05-10 23:11 ` Thomas Voegtlin
2015-05-28 15:53 ` Gavin Andresen
2015-05-28 17:05 ` Mike Hearn
2015-05-28 17:19 ` Gavin Andresen
2015-05-28 17:34 ` Mike Hearn
2015-05-28 18:23 ` Gavin Andresen
2015-05-29 11:26 ` Mike Hearn
2015-05-29 11:42 ` Tier Nolan
2015-05-29 11:57 ` Mike Hearn
2015-05-29 12:39 ` Gavin Andresen
2015-05-29 14:00 ` insecurity
2015-05-29 14:15 ` Braun Brelin
2015-05-29 14:09 ` Tier Nolan
2015-05-29 14:20 ` Gavin Andresen
2015-05-29 14:22 ` Mike Hearn
2015-05-29 14:21 ` Mike Hearn
2015-05-29 14:22 ` Tier Nolan
2015-05-29 16:39 ` Raystonn . [this message]
2015-05-29 18:28 ` [Bitcoin-development] Proposed alternatives to the 20MB stepfunction Tier Nolan
2015-05-29 17:53 ` [Bitcoin-development] Proposed alternatives to the 20MB step function Admin Istrator
2015-05-30 9:03 ` Aaron Voisine
2015-06-01 11:30 ` Ricardo Filipe
2015-06-01 11:46 ` Marcel Jamin
2015-05-29 18:47 ` Bryan Cheng
2015-05-30 1:36 ` Cameron Garnham
2015-05-28 17:39 ` [Bitcoin-development] Proposed alternatives to the 20MB stepfunction Raystonn .
2015-05-28 17:59 ` Pieter Wuille
2015-05-28 18:21 ` Gavin Andresen
2015-05-28 17:50 ` [Bitcoin-development] Proposed alternatives to the 20MB step function Peter Todd
2015-05-28 17:14 ` Thomas Voegtlin
2015-05-28 17:34 ` Pieter Wuille
2015-05-29 17:45 ` Aaron Voisine
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