From: Tao Effect <contact@taoeffect•com>
To: Paul Sztorc <truthcoin@gmail•com>
Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Updating the Scaling Roadmap
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2017 16:12:03 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <D30D8852-EFF4-4AB3-9B97-53D622A1440A@taoeffect.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <08078429-089f-9315-2f76-a08121c5378c@gmail.com>
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Paul,
There is a difference between replying to an email, and addressing the issues that were brought up in it.
I did read your reply, and I chose not to respond to it because it did not address anything I said.
Here's an example:
> It would not be accurate to say that miners have "total" control. Miners
> do control the destination of withdrawals, but they do not control the
> withdrawal-duration nor the withdrawal-frequency.
>
> So, if miners wish to 'steal' from a sidechain, they _can_ initiate a
> theft, but they can not change the fact that their malfeasance will be
> [a] obvious, and [b] on display for a long period of time.
Here, you admit that the security of the sidechains allows miners to steal bitcoins, something they cannot do currently.
You next tried to equate three different types of theft, what you called "Classic Theft", "Channel Theft", and "Drivechain Theft", saying:
> I do not think that any of the three stands out as being categorically
> worse than the others
To anyone who understands bitcoin, there is a very clear, unmistakeable difference between double-spending ("Classic Theft"), and *ownership* of the private key controlling the bitcoins.
Similarly, to anyone who understands bitcoin, there is also a very clear, unmistakeable difference between censorship ("Channel Theft"), and *ownership* of the private key controlling the bitcoins.
The entire email was a very long-form way of admitting to all of the issues that were raised in the previous email, while making it sound like you had addressed the issues.
I am not sure how else to respond to that email, given that none of the issues were really addressed.
Drivechain is an unmistakeable weakening of Bitcoin's security guarantees. This you have not denied.
There is no reason to weaken Bitcoin's security in such a dramatic fashion. Better options are being worked on, they just take time.
Kind regards,
Greg Slepak
--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA.
> On Jul 11, 2017, at 3:57 PM, Paul Sztorc <truthcoin@gmail•com <mailto:truthcoin@gmail•com>> wrote:
>
> On 7/11/2017 6:41 PM, Tao Effect wrote:
>> Dear Paul,
>>
>> Drivechain has several issues that you've acknowledged but have not,
>> IMO, adequately (at all really) addressed [1].
>
> I replied to your email at length, at [2]. You should read that email,
> and then reply to it with your outstanding objections, if you still have
> them (per the usual customs of a mailing list).
>
> [2]
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2017-June/014609.html <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2017-June/014609.html>
>
>> Adopting DC would be an irreversible course of action,
>
> This is false -- it is easily reversible with a second soft fork.
>
> Also, I would say to everyone that, (in my opinion as the OP) this
> conversation will go off-topic if it veers exclusively into 'drivechain
> review'.
>
> Paul
>
>
>
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2017-07-11 23:12 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 57+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2017-07-10 16:50 Paul Sztorc
2017-07-11 16:03 ` Chris Stewart
2017-07-11 16:49 ` Adam Back
2017-07-11 20:01 ` Pieter Wuille
2017-07-11 20:36 ` Paul Sztorc
2017-07-11 21:40 ` Pieter Wuille
2017-07-11 22:49 ` Paul Sztorc
2017-07-11 21:16 ` CryptAxe
2017-07-11 20:18 ` Paul Sztorc
2017-07-11 21:31 ` Gregory Maxwell
2017-07-11 22:27 ` Paul Sztorc
2017-07-11 21:11 ` Gregory Maxwell
2017-07-11 21:40 ` Gregory Maxwell
2017-07-11 22:17 ` Paul Sztorc
2017-07-11 22:41 ` Tao Effect
2017-07-11 22:57 ` Paul Sztorc
2017-07-11 23:12 ` Tao Effect [this message]
2017-07-12 0:21 ` Paul Sztorc
2017-07-12 7:27 ` Jacob Eliosoff
2017-07-12 19:19 ` Chris Stewart
2017-07-12 19:24 ` Tao Effect
2017-07-12 19:34 ` Chris Stewart
2017-07-12 19:42 ` Tao Effect
2017-07-12 19:54 ` CryptAxe
2017-07-12 21:55 ` Tao Effect
2017-07-12 22:07 ` CryptAxe
2017-07-11 23:36 ` Bryan Bishop
2017-07-12 0:07 ` Gregory Maxwell
2017-07-12 1:40 ` Paul Sztorc
2017-07-12 2:48 ` Bryan Bishop
2017-07-12 3:33 ` Gregory Maxwell
2017-07-12 6:17 ` [bitcoin-dev] how to disable segwit in my build? Dan Libby
2017-07-13 1:04 ` Gregory Maxwell
2017-07-13 13:11 ` Federico Tenga
2017-07-13 13:39 ` Hampus Sjöberg
2017-07-13 16:19 ` Dan Libby
2017-07-13 16:35 ` Jameson Lopp
2017-07-13 21:58 ` Dan Libby
2017-07-13 22:50 ` Hampus Sjöberg
2017-07-13 23:20 ` Dan Libby
2017-07-14 8:52 ` Hampus Sjöberg
2017-07-14 9:03 ` Tier Nolan
2017-07-13 23:19 ` Lucas Clemente Vella
2017-07-13 16:05 ` Dan Libby
2017-07-14 21:11 ` Troy Benjegerdes
2017-07-13 1:48 ` Anthony Towns
2017-07-13 16:13 ` Dan Libby
2017-07-12 1:22 ` [bitcoin-dev] Updating the Scaling Roadmap Karl Johan Alm
2017-07-12 9:37 ` Tom Zander
2017-07-12 9:02 ` Tom Zander
2017-07-11 23:28 ` Anthony Towns
2017-07-17 17:13 ` [bitcoin-dev] Updating the Scaling Roadmap [Update] Paul Sztorc
2017-07-17 18:49 ` Alex Morcos
2017-07-17 20:13 ` Paul Sztorc
2017-07-17 21:50 ` Peter Todd
[not found] ` <20170717214704.ksegcrdqf3zeslah@fedora-23-dvm>
2017-07-17 22:04 ` Paul Sztorc
2017-07-11 22:26 [bitcoin-dev] Updating the Scaling Roadmap Steve Davis
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