Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP Proposal: Consensus (hard fork) PoST Datastore for Energy Efficient Mining

From: Eric Voskuil <eric@voskuil•org>
To: Lonero Foundation <loneroassociation@gmail•com>,
	Bitcoin Protocol Discussion
	<bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org>
Cc: Devrandom <c1.devrandom@niftybox•net>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP Proposal: Consensus (hard fork) PoST Datastore for Energy Efficient Mining
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2021 12:53:02 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <E2C43378-B527-4C36-8726-E7E2BC380B3B@voskuil.org> (raw)

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Hi Andrew,

Do you mean that you can reduce the cost of executing the cryptography at a comparable level of security? If so this will only have the effect of increasing the amount of it that is required to consume the same cost.

https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Efficiency-Paradox

You mentioned a staking hybrid in your original post.

https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Hybrid-Mining-Fallacy

This would be a change to dynamics - the economic forces at work. Staking is not censorship resistant

https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Proof-of-Stake-Fallacy

and is therefore what I refer to as cryptodynamically insecure.

https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Cryptodynamic-Principles

As such it wouldn’t likely be considered as a contribution to Bitcoin. It might of course be useful in some other context.

https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Shitcoin-Definition

But BIPs are proposals aimed at Bitcoin improvement.

https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0001.mediawiki#What_is_a_BIP

Non-staking attempts to improve energy efficiency are either proof of work in disguise, such as proof of memory:

https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Proof-of-Memory-Fallacy

or attempts to repurpose “wasteful” computing, such as by finding prime numbers, which does not imply a reduction in dedicated energy consumption.

https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Dedicated-Cost-Principle

Finally, waste and renewable energy approaches at “carbon” (vs energy) reduction must still consume the same in cost as the reward. In other words, the apparent benefit represents a temporary market shift, with advantage to first movers. The market will still consume what it consumes. If the hashing energy was free all reward consumption would shift to operations.

https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Byproduct-Mining-Fallacy

The motivation behind these attempts is naively understandable, but based on a false premise.

https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Energy-Waste-Fallacy

The one thing that reduces Bitcoin energy consumption is an increase in energy cost relative to block reward.

https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Energy-Exhaustion-Fallacy

e

> On Mar 5, 2021, at 07:30, Lonero Foundation via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi, this isn't about the energy efficient argument in regards to renewables or mining devices but a better cryptography layer to get the most out of your hashing for validation. I do understand the arbitrariness of it, but do want to still propose a document. Do I use the Media Wiki format on GitHub and just attach it as my proposal?
> 
> Best regards, Andrew
> 
> On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 10:07 AM Devrandom <c1.devrandom@niftybox•net> wrote:
>> Hi Ryan and Andrew,
>> 
>> On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 5:42 AM Ryan Grant via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>>   https://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pow-cheapest/
>>>     "Nothing is Cheaper than Proof of Work"
>>>     on | 04 Aug 2015
>> 
>> Just to belabor this a bit, the paper demonstrates that the mining market will tend to expend resources equivalent to miner reward.  It does not prove that mining work has to expend *energy* as a primary cost.
>> 
>> Some might argue that energy expenditure has negative externalities and that we should move to other resources.  I would argue that the negative externalities will go away soon because of the move to renewables, so the point is likely moot. 
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