bit has a lot of meanings to geeks, so what. bit means for average people: - something very small, that 100 satoshi is. - part of the name Bitcoin - easy to get conversion 1 coin = 1 million bits = 1 Bitcoin Regards, Tamas Blummer Founder, CEO http://bitsofproof.com On 03.05.2014, at 18:02, slush wrote: > Excellent points Christophe! > > Although moving to 1e-6 units is fine for me and I see advantages of doing this, I don't get that people on this mailing list are fine with calling such unit "bit". It's geeky as hell, ambiguous and confusing. > > slush > > > On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 5:48 PM, Christophe Biocca wrote: > Context as a disambiguator works fine when the interlocutors > understand the topics they're talking about. > Not a day goes by without me seeing "neurotypical people" get horribly > confused between RAM and Hard Drive sizes, because they share the same > units (not that that can be helped, as the units are supposed to be > the same, base 1000 vs 1024 notwithstanding). > > Bit (as a unit) is already really confusing for anyone who doesn't > deal with it on a regular basis. I think people who don't see an issue > are making an assumption based on their own lack of confusion. We > understand computer science AND Bitcoin. Most people have zero > understanding of either. > > Bitcoin already has a ton of issues with terrible names for things: > > - Mining (for transaction validation). > - Addresses (which are meant to be one-time use, and don't even really > exist at the network level). > - Wallets (which don't hold your bitcoins, can be copied, and all > backups can be stolen from equally). > > I end up having to make the distinctions obvious every time I explain > Bitcoin to someone new to it. There's an acceptable tradeoff here, > because there were arguably no better words to assign to these > concepts (although I'd argue mining is a really awful metaphor, and is > the one that prompts the most questions from people). Then add to the > pile a bunch of third parties naming themselves after parts of the > protocol (Coinbase,Blockchain.info). Not blaming them for it, but I've > definitiely seen average people get confused between "the blockchain" > and "blockchain.info" (not so much Coinbase, because that name doesn't > come up in beginner explanations). > > It seems downright masochistic to add > yet-another-word-that-doesn't-mean-what-you-think-it-means to the pile > for no reason other than aesthetics. Are we actively trying to confuse > people? > > On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 1:41 AM, Aaron Voisine wrote: > > I have to agree with Mike. Human language is surprisingly tolerant of > > overloading and inference from context. Neurotypical people have no > > problem with it and perceive a software engineer's aversion to it as > > being pedantic and strange. Note that "bits" was a term for a unit of > > money long before the invention of digital computers. > > > > Aaron > > > > There's no trick to being a humorist when you have the whole > > government working for you -- Will Rodgers > > > > > > On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 7:06 PM, Gordon Mohr wrote: > >> [resend - apologies if duplicate] > >> > >> Microbitcoin is a good-sized unit, workable for everyday transaction > >> values, with room-to-grow, and a nice relationship to satoshis as 'cents'. > >> > >> But "bits" has problems as a unit name. > >> > >> "Bits" will be especially problematic whenever people try to graduate > >> from informal use to understanding the system internals - that is, when > >> the real "bits" of key sizes, hash sizes, and storage/bandwidth needs > >> become important. The "bit" as "binary digit" was important enough that > >> Satoshi named the system after it; that homage gets lost if the word is > >> muddied with a new retconned meaning that's quite different. > >> > >> Some examples of possible problems: > >> > >> * If "bit" equals "100 satoshis", then the natural-language unpacking of > >> "bit-coin" is "100 satoshi coin", which runs against all prior usage. > >> > >> * If people are informed that a "256-bit private key" is what ultimately > >> controls their balances, it could prompt confusion like, "if each key > >> has 256-bits, will I need 40 keys to hold 10,000.00 bits?" > >> > >> * When people learn that there are 8 bits to a byte, they may think, > >> "OK, my wallet holding my 80,000.00 bits will then take up 10 kilobytes". > >> > >> * When people naturally extend "bit" into "kilobits" to mean "1000 > >> bits", then the new coinage "kilobits" will mean the exact same amount > >> (100,000 satoshi) as many have already been calling "millibits". > >> > >> I believe it'd be best to pick a new made-up single-syllable word as a > >> synonym for "microbitcoin", and I've laid out the case for "zib" as that > >> word at . > >> > >> 'Zib' also lends itself to an expressive unicode symbol, 'Ƶ' > >> (Z-with-stroke), that remains distinctive even if it loses its stroke or > >> gets case-reversed. (Comparatively, all 'b'-derived symbols for > >> data-bits, bitcoins, or '100 satoshi bits' risk collision in contexts > >> where subtleties of casing/stroking are lost.) > >> > >> (There's summary of more problems with "bit" in the zibcoin.org FAQ at: > >> .) > >> > >> - Gordon > >> > >> On 5/1/14, 3:35 PM, Aaron Voisine wrote: > >>> I'm also a big fan of standardizing on microBTC as the standard unit. > >>> I didn't like the name "bits" at first, but the more I think about it, > >>> the more I like it. The main thing going for it is the fact that it's > >>> part of the name bitcoin. If Bitcoin is the protocol and network, bits > >>> are an obvious choice for the currency unit. > >>> > >>> I would like to propose using Unicode character U+0180, lowercase b > >>> with stroke, as the symbol to represent the microBTC denomination, > >>> whether we call bits or something else: > >>> http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/0180/index.htm > >>> > >>> Another candidate is Unicode character U+2422, the blank symbol, but I > >>> prefer stroke b. > >>> http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/2422/index.htm > >>> > >>> Aaron > >>> > >>> There's no trick to being a humorist when you have the whole > >>> government working for you -- Will Rodgers > >>> > >>>> On Apr 21, 2014 5:41 AM, "Pieter Wuille" wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> On Apr 21, 2014 3:37 AM, "Un Ix" wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Something tells me this would be reduced to a single syllable in common > >>>>> usage I.e. bit. > >>>> > >>>> What units will be called colloquially is not something developers will > >>>> determine. It will vary, depend on language and culture, and is not > >>>> relevant to this discussion in my opinion. > >>>> > >>>> It may well be that people in some geographic or language area will end up > >>>> (or for a while) calling 1e-06 BTC "bits". That's fine, but using that as > >>>> "official" name in software would be very strange and potentially confusing > >>>> in my opinion. As mentioned by others, that would seem to me like calling > >>>> dollars "bucks" in bank software. Nobody seems to have a problem with > >>>> having colloquial names, but "US dollar" or "euro" are far less ambiguous > >>>> than "bit". I think we need a more distinctive name. > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Pieter > >>> > >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>> "Accelerate Dev Cycles with Automated Cross-Browser Testing - For FREE > >>> Instantly run your Selenium tests across 300+ browser/OS combos. Get > >>> unparalleled scalability from the best Selenium testing platform available. > >>> Simple to use. Nothing to install. Get started now for free." > >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/SauceLabs > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Bitcoin-development mailing list > >>> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development > >>> > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> "Accelerate Dev Cycles with Automated Cross-Browser Testing - For FREE > >> Instantly run your Selenium tests across 300+ browser/OS combos. Get > >> unparalleled scalability from the best Selenium testing platform available. > >> Simple to use. Nothing to install. 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