From: Sjors Provoost <sjors@sprovoost•nl>
To: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion
<bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org>,
Gregory Maxwell <greg@xiph•org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] UHS: Full-node security without maintaining a full UTXO set
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2018 11:39:59 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <E5BD6DC6-281B-46E5-ABD3-71B2D5549902@sprovoost.nl> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAAS2fgTHTK8Dve9xHW9yULa1yObWtmwmeKKcD_BMjON=RAw8Sg@mail.gmail.com>
eMMC storage, which low end devices often use, come in 2x increments. Running a pruned full node on 8 GB is difficult if not impossible (the UTXO set peaked at 3.5 GB in January, but a full node stores additional stuff).
However, 16 GB is only €10 more expensive and presumably standard by the time this would be rolled out.
On AWS every GB of SSD storage avoided saves $1 per year, not end of the world stuff, but not negligible either. Outbound traffic costs $0.10 / GB (ignoring free allowance), so when uploading 200 GB per year, the 5% would offset $1 of storage cost savings.
The above seems marginal, probably not worth it unless there’s really no downside.
What I find attractive about this proposal is the ability to squeeze more out of limited RAM (typically only 1 or 2 GB on these low end devices). I’d have to test Cory’s branch to see if that actually matters in practice.
It’s also useful to distinguish benefits during initial sync from ongoing operation. The former I’ve almost given up on for low end devices (can take weeks), in favor of doing it on a faster computer and copying the result. The latter needs far less RAM, so perhaps this proposal doesn’t help much there, but that would be useful to measure.
Did you try the recent SHA256 optimizations on your branch?
Sjors
> Op 17 mei 2018, om 18:56 heeft Gregory Maxwell via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org> het volgende geschreven:
>
> On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 4:36 PM, Cory Fields via bitcoin-dev
> <bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>> Tl;dr: Rather than storing all unspent outputs, store their hashes.
>
> My initial thoughts are it's not _completely_ obvious to me that a 5%
> ongoing bandwidth increase is actually a win to get something like a
> 40% reduction in the size of a pruned node (and less than a 1%
> reduction in an archive node) primarily because I've not seen size of
> a pruned node cited as a usage limiting factor basically anywhere. I
> would assume it is a win but wouldn't be shocked to see a careful
> analysis that concluded it wasn't.
>
> But perhaps more interestingly, I think the overhead is not really 5%,
> but it's 5% measured in the context of the phenomenally inefficient tx
> mechanisms ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1377345.0 ).
> Napkin math on the size of a txn alone tells me it's more like a 25%
> increase if you just consider size of tx vs size of
> tx+scriptpubkeys,amounts. If I'm not missing something there, I think
> that would get in into a very clear not-win range.
>
> On the positive side is that it doesn't change the blockchain
> datastructure, so it's something implementations could do without
> marrying the network to it forever.
>
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2018-06-07 9:46 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 7+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2018-05-16 16:36 Cory Fields
2018-05-17 15:28 ` Matt Corallo
2018-05-17 16:56 ` Gregory Maxwell
2018-05-17 17:16 ` Cory Fields
2018-06-07 9:39 ` Sjors Provoost [this message]
2018-06-10 23:07 ` Jim Posen
2018-05-18 15:42 ` Alex Mizrahi
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=E5BD6DC6-281B-46E5-ABD3-71B2D5549902@sprovoost.nl \
--to=sjors@sprovoost$(echo .)nl \
--cc=bitcoin-dev@lists$(echo .)linuxfoundation.org \
--cc=greg@xiph$(echo .)org \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox