* [bitcoin-dev] Trustless 2-way-peg without softfork
@ 2023-09-10 20:04 Dr Maxim Orlovsky
2023-09-10 20:18 ` Dr Maxim Orlovsky
2023-09-11 15:26 ` G. Andrew Stone
0 siblings, 2 replies; 4+ messages in thread
From: Dr Maxim Orlovsky @ 2023-09-10 20:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion
Hi,
Several years ago my team from Pandora Project working on censorship-resistant distributed machine learning proposed Prometheus: a protocol for high-load computing on top of Bitcoin. The protocol operates as a multi-party game setting where an oracle ("worker") is provided with an arbitrary computationally complex task (any Turing-complete computing, machine learning training or inference etc) and the network is able to reach a consensus on whether a result reported by the worker is true. The consensus is reached via optional rounds of verification and arbitrage. The protocol is cryptoeconomically-safe, i.e. has a proven Nash equilibrium. The protocol was later transferred to LNP/BP Standards Association (https://lnp-bp.org) and was kept in a backlog of what can be done in a future as a layer on top of Bitcoin.
I'd like to emphasize that Prometheus works on Bitcoin, requires just several Bitcoin tx per task, and _doesn't require any soft fork_. All economic setting is done with Bitcoin as a means of payment, and using existing Bitcoin script capabilities.
Link to the paper describing the protocol: <https://github.com/Prometheus-WG/prometheus-spec/blob/master/prometheus.pdf>
Only today I have realized that Prometheus protocol can be used to build cryptoeconomically-safe (i.e. trustless) 2-way-peg on the Bitcoin blockchain without any soft-forks: a "worker" in such a case acts as an oracle for some extra-bitcoin system (sidechain, client-side-validated protocol, zk rollup etc) validating it, and the protocol will reach consensus on whether the state reported by the oracle is correct.
In other words, this is an alternative to BIP-300 and other similar soft-forks having the only purpose of doing 2-way pegs. It also enables the two-way trustless transfer of Bitcoins between Bitcoin blockchain, RGB and, in a future, potential new layer 1 called "prime" (to learn more about prime you can check my Baltic Honeybadger talk <https://www.youtube.com/live/V3vvybsc1A4?feature=shared&t=23631>).
Kind regards,
Dr Maxim Orlovsky
Twitter: @dr_orlovsky
Nostr: npub13mhg7ksq9efna8ullmc5cufa53yuy06k73q4u7v425s8tgpdr5msk5mnym
LNP/BP Standards Association
Twitter: @lnp_bp
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoin-dev] Trustless 2-way-peg without softfork
2023-09-10 20:04 [bitcoin-dev] Trustless 2-way-peg without softfork Dr Maxim Orlovsky
@ 2023-09-10 20:18 ` Dr Maxim Orlovsky
2023-09-11 15:26 ` G. Andrew Stone
1 sibling, 0 replies; 4+ messages in thread
From: Dr Maxim Orlovsky @ 2023-09-10 20:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion
In the last e-mail I missed the second article which describes proofs for the Nash equilibrium for the protocol model: <https://github.com/pandora-network/ibiss-spec/blob/master/ibiss-spec.pdf>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoin-dev] Trustless 2-way-peg without softfork
2023-09-10 20:04 [bitcoin-dev] Trustless 2-way-peg without softfork Dr Maxim Orlovsky
2023-09-10 20:18 ` Dr Maxim Orlovsky
@ 2023-09-11 15:26 ` G. Andrew Stone
2023-09-15 9:31 ` Dr Maxim Orlovsky
1 sibling, 1 reply; 4+ messages in thread
From: G. Andrew Stone @ 2023-09-11 15:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dr Maxim Orlovsky, Bitcoin Protocol Discussion
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2945 bytes --]
Any chance of a quick tldr to pique our interest by explaining how exactly
this works "and the protocol will reach consensus on whether the state
reported by the oracle is correct" in presumably a permissionless,
anonymous, decentralized fashion, and what caveats there are?
Regards,
Andrew
On Sun, Sep 10, 2023 at 4:06 PM Dr Maxim Orlovsky via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Several years ago my team from Pandora Project working on
> censorship-resistant distributed machine learning proposed Prometheus: a
> protocol for high-load computing on top of Bitcoin. The protocol operates
> as a multi-party game setting where an oracle ("worker") is provided with
> an arbitrary computationally complex task (any Turing-complete computing,
> machine learning training or inference etc) and the network is able to
> reach a consensus on whether a result reported by the worker is true. The
> consensus is reached via optional rounds of verification and arbitrage. The
> protocol is cryptoeconomically-safe, i.e. has a proven Nash equilibrium.
> The protocol was later transferred to LNP/BP Standards Association (
> https://lnp-bp.org) and was kept in a backlog of what can be done in a
> future as a layer on top of Bitcoin.
>
> I'd like to emphasize that Prometheus works on Bitcoin, requires just
> several Bitcoin tx per task, and _doesn't require any soft fork_. All
> economic setting is done with Bitcoin as a means of payment, and using
> existing Bitcoin script capabilities.
>
> Link to the paper describing the protocol: <
> https://github.com/Prometheus-WG/prometheus-spec/blob/master/prometheus.pdf
> >
>
> Only today I have realized that Prometheus protocol can be used to build
> cryptoeconomically-safe (i.e. trustless) 2-way-peg on the Bitcoin
> blockchain without any soft-forks: a "worker" in such a case acts as an
> oracle for some extra-bitcoin system (sidechain, client-side-validated
> protocol, zk rollup etc) validating it, and the protocol will reach
> consensus on whether the state reported by the oracle is correct.
>
> In other words, this is an alternative to BIP-300 and other similar
> soft-forks having the only purpose of doing 2-way pegs. It also enables the
> two-way trustless transfer of Bitcoins between Bitcoin blockchain, RGB and,
> in a future, potential new layer 1 called "prime" (to learn more about
> prime you can check my Baltic Honeybadger talk <
> https://www.youtube.com/live/V3vvybsc1A4?feature=shared&t=23631>).
>
>
> Kind regards,
> Dr Maxim Orlovsky
> Twitter: @dr_orlovsky
> Nostr: npub13mhg7ksq9efna8ullmc5cufa53yuy06k73q4u7v425s8tgpdr5msk5mnym
>
> LNP/BP Standards Association
> Twitter: @lnp_bp
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 3806 bytes --]
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoin-dev] Trustless 2-way-peg without softfork
2023-09-11 15:26 ` G. Andrew Stone
@ 2023-09-15 9:31 ` Dr Maxim Orlovsky
0 siblings, 0 replies; 4+ messages in thread
From: Dr Maxim Orlovsky @ 2023-09-15 9:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion
Hi,
I got a lot of feedback on my proposal -- and it appears that I have to work on a simpler paper explaining how the proposed generic model ("Prometheus") can be applied to a specific case of two-way peg. I have planned this work for the next several weeks and will post it to this mailing list once ready.
Kind regards,
Maxim
------- Original Message -------
On Monday, September 11th, 2023 at 5:26 PM, G. Andrew Stone via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> Any chance of a quick tldr to pique our interest by explaining how exactly this works "and the protocol will reach consensus on whether the state reported by the oracle is correct" in presumably a permissionless, anonymous, decentralized fashion, and what caveats there are?
>
> Regards,
> Andrew
>
> On Sun, Sep 10, 2023 at 4:06 PM Dr Maxim Orlovsky via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Several years ago my team from Pandora Project working on censorship-resistant distributed machine learning proposed Prometheus: a protocol for high-load computing on top of Bitcoin. The protocol operates as a multi-party game setting where an oracle ("worker") is provided with an arbitrary computationally complex task (any Turing-complete computing, machine learning training or inference etc) and the network is able to reach a consensus on whether a result reported by the worker is true. The consensus is reached via optional rounds of verification and arbitrage. The protocol is cryptoeconomically-safe, i.e. has a proven Nash equilibrium. The protocol was later transferred to LNP/BP Standards Association (https://lnp-bp.org) and was kept in a backlog of what can be done in a future as a layer on top of Bitcoin.
> >
> > I'd like to emphasize that Prometheus works on Bitcoin, requires just several Bitcoin tx per task, and _doesn't require any soft fork_. All economic setting is done with Bitcoin as a means of payment, and using existing Bitcoin script capabilities.
> >
> > Link to the paper describing the protocol: <https://github.com/Prometheus-WG/prometheus-spec/blob/master/prometheus.pdf>
> >
> > Only today I have realized that Prometheus protocol can be used to build cryptoeconomically-safe (i.e. trustless) 2-way-peg on the Bitcoin blockchain without any soft-forks: a "worker" in such a case acts as an oracle for some extra-bitcoin system (sidechain, client-side-validated protocol, zk rollup etc) validating it, and the protocol will reach consensus on whether the state reported by the oracle is correct.
> >
> > In other words, this is an alternative to BIP-300 and other similar soft-forks having the only purpose of doing 2-way pegs. It also enables the two-way trustless transfer of Bitcoins between Bitcoin blockchain, RGB and, in a future, potential new layer 1 called "prime" (to learn more about prime you can check my Baltic Honeybadger talk <https://www.youtube.com/live/V3vvybsc1A4?feature=shared&t=23631>).
> >
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Dr Maxim Orlovsky
> > Twitter: @dr_orlovsky
> > Nostr: npub13mhg7ksq9efna8ullmc5cufa53yuy06k73q4u7v425s8tgpdr5msk5mnym
> >
> > LNP/BP Standards Association
> > Twitter: @lnp_bp
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > bitcoin-dev mailing list
> > bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org
> > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
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