public inbox for bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Anthony Towns <aj@erisian•com.au>
To: "David A. Harding" <dave@dtrt•org>,
	Bitcoin Protocol Discussion
	<bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] On mempool policy consistency
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2022 11:02:43 +1000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <Y13NM4dyuD6ktvlf@erisian.com.au> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <194063b733e539e8e24cfd83fa879ed0@dtrt.org>

On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 09:45:09PM -1000, David A. Harding via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> I think this might be understating the problem.  A 95% chance of having
> an outbound peer accept your tx conversely implies 1 in 20 payments will
> fail to propagate on their initial broadcast.

Whether that's terrible or not depends on how easy it is to retry (and how
likely the retry is to succeed) after a failure -- if a TCP packet fails,
it just gets automatically resent, and if that succeeds, there's a little
lag, but your connection is still usable. I think it's *conceivable* that
a 5% failure rate could be detectable and automatically rectified. Not
that I have a good idea how you'd actually do that, in a way that's
efficient/private/decentralised...

> Some napkin math: there are about 250,000 transactions a day; if
> we round that up to 100 million a year and assume we only want one
> transaction per year to fail to initially propagate on a network where
> 30% of nodes have adopted a more permissive policy, lightweight clients
> will need to connect to over 50 randomly selected nodes.[1]  

A target failure probability of 1-in-1e8 means:

 * with 8 connections, you need 90% of the network to support your txs
 * with 12 connections, you need ~79%
 * with 24 connections (eg everyone running a long-lived node is
   listening, so long lived nodes make 12 outbound and receive about
   ~12 inbound; shortlived nodes just do 24 outbound), you need ~54%

So with that success target, and no preferential peering, you need
a majority of listening nodes to support your tx's features in most
reasonable scenarios, I think.

> For a more
> permissive policy only adopted by 10% of nodes, the lightweight client
> needs to connect to almost 150 nodes.

I get 175 connections needed for that scenario; or 153 with a target
failure rate of 1-in-10-million.

Cheers,
aj


  reply	other threads:[~2022-10-30  1:02 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 33+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2022-10-26 23:52 Anthony Towns
2022-10-27 12:36 ` Gloria Zhao
2022-10-27 15:37   ` Anthony Towns
2022-10-27 18:17     ` Luke Dashjr
2022-10-27 13:49 ` Greg Sanders
2022-10-27 15:00   ` Peter Todd
2022-10-27 20:29 ` Antoine Riard
2022-10-30  2:24   ` Anthony Towns
2022-10-29  7:45 ` David A. Harding
2022-10-30  1:02   ` Anthony Towns [this message]
2022-10-30  2:40     ` Anthony Towns
2022-10-30 11:06     ` email
2022-10-31 13:02 ` Suhas Daftuar
2022-10-31 16:25   ` Greg Sanders
2022-10-31 17:21     ` email
2022-10-31 17:51       ` Peter Todd
2022-11-04 10:28         ` email
2022-11-02  3:07     ` Anthony Towns
2022-11-02 13:32       ` Greg Sanders
2022-11-02 19:50   ` Antoine Riard
2022-11-05  2:35   ` Peter Todd
     [not found] <mailman.38435.1666828344.956.bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
2022-10-27  9:56 ` John Carvalho
2022-10-27 17:21   ` Anthony Towns
2022-10-27 17:35     ` Suhas Daftuar
2022-10-27 17:44       ` Greg Sanders
2022-10-27 19:00         ` Greg Sanders
2022-11-08  9:28     ` AdamISZ
2022-11-10 14:38       ` email
2022-11-03 21:06 email
2022-11-07 14:32 ` Peter Todd
2022-11-07 14:47   ` Erik Aronesty
2022-11-08 14:54   ` email
2022-11-09 12:05     ` email

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=Y13NM4dyuD6ktvlf@erisian.com.au \
    --to=aj@erisian$(echo .)com.au \
    --cc=bitcoin-dev@lists$(echo .)linuxfoundation.org \
    --cc=dave@dtrt$(echo .)org \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox