From: Peter Todd <pete@petertodd•org>
To: Mark Friedenbach <mark@monetize•io>,
Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists•sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] deterministic transaction expiration
Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2014 10:20:25 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <cafd8184-f589-4709-90f3-f3a38f2dd8d0@email.android.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <53E2585C.8070009@monetize.io>
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On 6 August 2014 09:31:24 GMT-07:00, Mark Friedenbach <mark@monetize•io> wrote:
>I highly doubt that is the best approach.
>
>If this nExpiry field is a consensus rule, then the Merkle tree or the
>appropriate paths through needs to be included with the transaction as
>part of the network and on-disk data structures, so that proper
>validation can be done. This would be both more disruptive and less
>efficient than simply adding an nExpiry field to the transaction
>format,
>as we do in Freimarkets.
The general case doesn't require transmission of any merkle data; it is derived from the tx data. Equally changing a data format is certainly: note how Freimarkets has no third-party library support because you've made it incompatible with the standard Bitcoin data structures. Merkle radix tree formatting OTOH is just a cryptographically committed extension of the tag-value concept seen in protobuf, among others.
re: efficiency, we need fundamental improvements in efficiency, not little micro-optimisations everywhere done at high cost to maintainability.
re: validation, note how the merkle radix tree meets that need by allowing the absence of data to be proven.
>If the field is pre-consensus (a mempool gentleman's agreement), then
>it
>has no business in the transaction structure at all and should be
>packaged in some sort of envelope container.
It's also rather useless without consensus. Expiry is only useful if it is a guarantee, if not you might as well just implement tx replacement directly.
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2014-08-06 17:20 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 34+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2014-08-01 0:58 Kaz Wesley
2014-08-01 1:06 ` Peter Todd
2014-08-01 1:37 ` Kaz Wesley
2014-08-01 1:38 ` Matt Whitlock
2014-08-01 2:28 ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-08-01 3:26 ` Matt Whitlock
2014-08-01 3:31 ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-08-05 18:01 ` Alex Mizrahi
2014-08-02 0:36 ` Tom Harding
2014-08-05 17:02 ` Flavien Charlon
2014-08-05 17:48 ` Jeff Garzik
2014-08-05 18:54 ` Mike Hearn
2014-08-05 19:08 ` Jeff Garzik
2014-08-05 19:10 ` Kaz Wesley
2014-08-05 19:36 ` Jeff Garzik
2014-08-06 4:01 ` Tom Harding
2014-08-06 12:55 ` Jeff Garzik
2014-08-06 13:54 ` Mike Hearn
2014-08-06 14:44 ` Tom Harding
2014-08-06 15:08 ` Jeff Garzik
2014-08-06 15:17 ` Christian Decker
2014-08-06 15:42 ` Peter Todd
2014-08-06 16:15 ` Jeff Garzik
2014-08-06 17:02 ` Tom Harding
2014-08-06 17:21 ` Mark Friedenbach
2014-08-06 17:34 ` Peter Todd
2014-08-06 17:24 ` Jeff Garzik
2014-08-06 16:31 ` Mark Friedenbach
2014-08-06 17:20 ` Peter Todd [this message]
2014-08-06 17:30 ` Mark Friedenbach
2014-08-06 17:38 ` Peter Todd
2014-08-08 17:38 ` Tom Harding
2014-08-08 18:13 ` Jeff Garzik
2014-08-08 18:42 ` Kaz Wesley
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