* [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin Cooperative Proof-of-Stake whitpaper
@ 2014-05-20 16:12 Stephen Reed
2014-05-20 16:42 ` Nick Simpson
2014-05-21 6:47 ` Odinn Cyberguerrilla
0 siblings, 2 replies; 4+ messages in thread
From: Stephen Reed @ 2014-05-20 16:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: bitcoin-development
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I completed a whitepaper for Bitcoin a proof-of-stake version which uses a single nomadic verifiable mint agent and distributed replication of a single blockchain by compensated full nodes to achieve 6-hop, sub-second transaction acknowledgement times. Plus it pays dividends to holders instead of wasting it on miners. Subsidized transaction fees are thus lower.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1C4m-MFnxw0JjDorzrKs_IRQRqD9ila79o0IDt6KsbcE
Because the code is not yet written, this idea is half-baked so to speak. Comments appreciated on my project thread, which will be a development diary. I plan a hard fork of the Bitcoin blockchain in early 2016, after a year of public system testing, and conditioned on wide approval.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=584719.msg6397403#msg6397403
-Steve
Stephen L. Reed
Austin, Texas, USA
512.791.7860
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
* Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin Cooperative Proof-of-Stake whitpaper
2014-05-20 16:12 [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin Cooperative Proof-of-Stake whitpaper Stephen Reed
@ 2014-05-20 16:42 ` Nick Simpson
2014-05-21 15:52 ` Benjamin Cordes
2014-05-21 6:47 ` Odinn Cyberguerrilla
1 sibling, 1 reply; 4+ messages in thread
From: Nick Simpson @ 2014-05-20 16:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stephen Reed, Stephen Reed, bitcoin-development
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Referring to the subsidy for miners as "wasting it on miners" isn't going to garner you much favor.
On May 20, 2014 11:12:53 AM CDT, Stephen Reed <stephenreed@yahoo•com> wrote:
>I completed a whitepaper for Bitcoin a proof-of-stake version which
>uses a single nomadic verifiable mint agent and distributed replication
>of a single blockchain by compensated full nodes to achieve 6-hop,
>sub-second transaction acknowledgement times. Plus it pays dividends to
>holders instead of wasting it on miners. Subsidized transaction fees
>are thus lower.
>
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/1C4m-MFnxw0JjDorzrKs_IRQRqD9ila79o0IDt6KsbcE
>
>
>Because the code is not yet written, this idea is half-baked so to
>speak. Comments appreciated on my project thread, which will be a
>development diary. I plan a hard fork of the Bitcoin blockchain in
>early 2016, after a year of public system testing, and conditioned on
>wide approval.
>
>https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=584719.msg6397403#msg6397403
>
>-Steve
>
>Stephen L. Reed
>Austin, Texas, USA
>512.791.7860
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>"Accelerate Dev Cycles with Automated Cross-Browser Testing - For FREE
>Instantly run your Selenium tests across 300+ browser/OS combos.
>Get unparalleled scalability from the best Selenium testing platform
>available
>Simple to use. Nothing to install. Get started now for free."
>http://p.sf.net/sfu/SauceLabs
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>Bitcoin-development mailing list
>Bitcoin-development@lists•sourceforge.net
>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
* Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin Cooperative Proof-of-Stake whitpaper
2014-05-20 16:12 [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin Cooperative Proof-of-Stake whitpaper Stephen Reed
2014-05-20 16:42 ` Nick Simpson
@ 2014-05-21 6:47 ` Odinn Cyberguerrilla
1 sibling, 0 replies; 4+ messages in thread
From: Odinn Cyberguerrilla @ 2014-05-21 6:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stephen Reed; +Cc: bitcoin-development
> I completed a whitepaper for Bitcoin a proof-of-stake version which uses a
> single nomadic verifiable mint agent and distributed replication of a
> single blockchain by compensated full nodes to achieve 6-hop, sub-second
> transaction acknowledgement times. Plus it pays dividends to holders
> instead of wasting it on miners. Subsidized transaction fees are thus
> lower.
I look at this and agree of course that the nodes are decreasing, see,
https://getaddr.bitnodes.io/ But when I see stuff in the white paper
like "misbehaving nodes" in the context of an "audit agent," a "single
non-forking blockchain," the notion of "Misbehaving nodes" that would be
"banned from the network" so as to "motivat(e) honest behavior," ~ really,
all of this does sound as though a sort of morality is being formulated
rather than a mathematical solution.
This is not to say that the white paper hasn't addressed a problem that
needs to be addressed, namely... the problem of the nodes disappearing,
and a few other things. But to take that and then layer onto that the
issues associated with proof of stake... There does seem to be a simpler
way to address this and I think first without suggesting the complex issue
of some kind of thing that would involve dividends for those in a
proof-of-stake system, consensus achieved by stake-weighted voting, and so
forth, one would be better off removing all references to voting and
stake, and determining ways simply to incentivize more substantively those
who actually run a full node. Additionally I am hesitant to characterize
behavior as has been described in the white paper, as it would seem that
(in such a system) there would be an inclination or a tendency to exclude
certain patterns or groups of participants rather than determine ways in
which all participants or potential peers can serve the network.
>
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1C4m-MFnxw0JjDorzrKs_IRQRqD9ila79o0IDt6KsbcE
>
>
> Because the code is not yet written, this idea is half-baked so to speak.
> Comments appreciated on my project thread, which will be a development
> diary. I plan a hard fork of the Bitcoin blockchain in early 2016, after a
> year of public system testing, and conditioned on wide approval.
>
> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=584719.msg6397403#msg6397403
>
> -Steve
>
> Stephen L. Reed
> Austin, Texas, USA
> 512.791.7860------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> "Accelerate Dev Cycles with Automated Cross-Browser Testing - For FREE
> Instantly run your Selenium tests across 300+ browser/OS combos.
> Get unparalleled scalability from the best Selenium testing platform
> available
> Simple to use. Nothing to install. Get started now for free."
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/SauceLabs_______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development@lists•sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
* Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin Cooperative Proof-of-Stake whitpaper
2014-05-20 16:42 ` Nick Simpson
@ 2014-05-21 15:52 ` Benjamin Cordes
0 siblings, 0 replies; 4+ messages in thread
From: Benjamin Cordes @ 2014-05-21 15:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Nick Simpson; +Cc: bitcoin-development, Stephen Reed
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I'm doing a hard fork, too. In my version 78% of the wealth will go to me,
which I will redistribute on based on personal preferences. Come and join
me into a new and obviously superior system.
More seriously though: the paper is not bad, but I can guarantee you that
Bitcoin will *never* change that drastically. That's the whole point. It
has an indestructible kernel (think DNA). Rather it will do a slow death,
probably in 5-10 years. If you care for PoS than just launch your own.
On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 6:42 PM, Nick Simpson <nick@mynicknet•com> wrote:
> Referring to the subsidy for miners as "wasting it on miners" isn't going
> to garner you much favor.
>
>
> On May 20, 2014 11:12:53 AM CDT, Stephen Reed <stephenreed@yahoo•com>
> wrote:
>
>> I completed a whitepaper for Bitcoin a proof-of-stake version which uses
>> a single nomadic verifiable mint agent and distributed replication of a
>> single blockchain by compensated full nodes to achieve 6-hop, sub-second
>> transaction acknowledgement times. Plus it pays dividends to holders
>> instead of wasting it on miners. Subsidized transaction fees are thus lower.
>>
>>
>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1C4m-MFnxw0JjDorzrKs_IRQRqD9ila79o0IDt6KsbcE
>>
>> Because the code is not yet written, this idea is half-baked so to speak.
>> Comments appreciated on my project thread, which will be a development
>> diary. I plan a hard fork of the Bitcoin blockchain in early 2016, after a
>> year of public system testing, and conditioned on wide approval.
>>
>> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=584719.msg6397403#msg6397403
>>
>> -Steve
>>
>> Stephen L. Reed
>> Austin, Texas, USA
>> 512.791.7860
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> "Accelerate Dev Cycles with Automated Cross-Browser Testing - For FREE
>> Instantly run your Selenium tests across 300+ browser/OS combos.
>> Get unparalleled scalability from the best Selenium testing platform available
>> Simple to use. Nothing to install. Get started now for free."
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/SauceLabs
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Bitcoin-development mailing list
>> Bitcoin-development@lists•sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>>
>>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> "Accelerate Dev Cycles with Automated Cross-Browser Testing - For FREE
> Instantly run your Selenium tests across 300+ browser/OS combos.
> Get unparalleled scalability from the best Selenium testing platform
> available
> Simple to use. Nothing to install. Get started now for free."
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/SauceLabs
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development@lists•sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
>
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2014-05-20 16:42 ` Nick Simpson
2014-05-21 15:52 ` Benjamin Cordes
2014-05-21 6:47 ` Odinn Cyberguerrilla
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