--- Log opened Thu Aug 22 00:00:48 2019
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07:04 < instagibbs> elichai2> Yeah I think rust is trying to eat the cake and leave it full
07:04 < instagibbs> that's not how i hear it usually but makes a lot more sense :)
07:08 < elichai2> what do you mean? heh
07:08 < instagibbs> I've always heard it "have your cake and eat it too" which up to a few years ago didn't even make sense to me
07:08 < instagibbs> of course you have your cake... then you eat it
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07:17 < elichai2> instagibbs: oh lol. yeah, I translated it in my head from Hebrew so that's probably not how americans say it heh :)
07:19 < instagibbs> stealing for english
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07:53 < elichai2> andytoshi: no need for JS to run discord anymore :P https://github.com/serenity-rs/serenity
08:02 < gwillen> elichai2: the thing that rust uses is not disco_rd_, it's disco_urse_
08:02 < gwillen> totally different software with a similar name :-)
08:03 < elichai2> ok? haha don't know too much about discord
08:08 < gwillen> discord: https://discordapp.com
08:08 < gwillen> discourse: https://www.discourse.org/
08:10 < elichai2> `Serenity is a Rust library for the Discord API.` That's *Discord*
08:10 < elichai2> not Discourse
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08:24 < gwillen> er, yes, but unfortunate _Discourse_, not Discord, is the thing that andrew is having a problem with
08:24 < gwillen> and therefore Serenity does not help him in any way
08:30 -!- dongcarl_ is now known as dongcarl
08:40 < elichai2> Now i'm lost lol but nvm i guess
09:00 < real_or_random> elichai2: I think it's a problem but I'm not convinced enough to have started working on it
09:01 < real_or_random> and I don't see the obvious solution...
09:01 < real_or_random> so closing the issue is an option too.. shrug
09:01 < elichai2> well the env solution is a good solution I think
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09:07 < andytoshi> dpc: i'd be fine with supporting a compiler that was only a year old
09:07 < andytoshi> since rust is so young
09:07 < andytoshi> though if i dropped support for an old compiler i'd still do a major version bump
09:08 < andytoshi> so "no", even if mrustc was improved, the current situation is still completely untenable
09:09 < andytoshi> re discourse vs discord, regardless, an API library is not a functioning CLI app. as near as i can tell none of these newfangled js bs communication schemes have functioning CLI applications
09:09 < andytoshi> despite all of them being several years old and there being several half-baked projects for all of them
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10:57 < dpc> Your case have been brought in front of Rust community gated tribunal.
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11:12 < andytoshi> heh thanx
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13:33 < elichai2> BlueMatt: hey, is there any code that fuzz secp? want to look how it initiates stuff
13:33 < BlueMatt> I dont think we have code to fuzz secp proper, no
13:33 < BlueMatt> there is some upstream
13:40 < elichai2> BlueMatt: all of this was written without anything demonstrating how it works / using this? https://github.com/rust-bitcoin/rust-secp256k1/blob/master/src/ffi.rs#L136
13:40 < elichai2> wopss * https://github.com/rust-bitcoin/rust-secp256k1/blob/master/src/ffi.rs#L394
13:40 < BlueMatt> other projects use it
13:40 < BlueMatt> eg rust-lightning uses it
13:40 < BlueMatt> as does rust-bitcoin, to a lesser extent
13:41 < BlueMatt> but it doesnt fuzz rust-secp *itself*
13:41 < real_or_random> BlueMatt: We're thinking about solving https://github.com/rust-bitcoin/rust-secp256k1/issues/90 finally...
13:41 < elichai2> just want to see the user, we(me and real_or_random ) want to address #90
13:41 < elichai2> heh
13:41 < elichai2> *uses
13:42 < BlueMatt> ahhhhh
13:42 < BlueMatt> its a separate crate here https://github.com/rust-bitcoin/rust-lightning/tree/master/fuzz
13:42 < BlueMatt> ie the cargo.toml there turns on fuzztarget
13:42 < real_or_random> ah yep :)
13:43 < real_or_random> we're thinking about some global state that you need to set first to be able to use the fuzz functions. would it be inconvenient for the fuzzer to call such a function? would an env variable be more convenient?
13:43 < BlueMatt> nope, that would be totally fine
13:43 < elichai2> real_or_random: https://github.com/rust-bitcoin/rust-lightning/blob/master/fuzz/fuzz_targets/full_stack_target.rs#L245
13:43 < real_or_random> I've never used a fuzzer, so I have no idea but I guess calling a function is easy
13:43 < real_or_random> kk
13:43 < BlueMatt> some static I_DONT_WANT_CRYPTO_AT_ALL = false
13:43 < BlueMatt> is completely fine
13:44 < BlueMatt> eg https://github.com/rust-bitcoin/rust-lightning/blob/master/fuzz/fuzz_targets/full_stack_target.rs
13:44 < BlueMatt> s a rather complicated target
13:44 < real_or_random> CRYPTO_MEANS_CRYPTOGRAPHY = false
13:44 < BlueMatt> but all the logic can be put in main()
13:45 < elichai2> BlueMatt: what about secp256k1::enable_dangerous_fuzzer() that needs to be called at least once in the code? I'm trying to think if there's a concurrency issue here (like with tests that you can't have initializers)
13:45 < elichai2> oh there's a main :)
13:45 < BlueMatt> nah, there's proper initializers
13:45 < BlueMatt> and unsafe{SET_GLOBAL_MUTABLE_STATIC} is fine
13:45 < real_or_random> AtomicBool still looks safer :X but okay, both are fine
13:45 < BlueMatt> meh
13:46 < real_or_random> you want performance, I see
13:46 < real_or_random> or what is "meh"? :)
13:47 < elichai2> BlueMatt: oh you're saying that we actually export the blobal static mut itself and the user will need to unsafely change it. cool :) no need for a function
13:47 < BlueMatt> i mean if you have to do an atomimc load on every function that might actually slow down the fuzzer
13:47 < BlueMatt> probably not too much, but not worth it
13:47 < real_or_random> yes, sure
13:47 < real_or_random> this is totally fine, the bool won't even be there if fuzztarget is off
13:48 < BlueMatt> right
13:49 < elichai2> I like the idea of exposing the bool itself :)
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--- Log closed Fri Aug 23 00:00:51 2019