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07:19 < elichai2> hey, why in Musig you don't use a deterministic nonce? (you'll still commit to it and everything but this would prevent bad randomness and accidentally using the same nonce twice)
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07:39 < nickler> elichai2: full explanation is in the paper but the problem is that you can't know the combined nonce when deriving your local nonce
07:40 < elichai2> nickler: but if everyone derives locally using *his own* private key and the message he doesn't know the combined nonce
07:40 < nickler> but the sig you compute is k + H(... combined_nonce ...)*x. So if you'd sign the same message twice you'd reuse the nonce, but someone else might not
07:40 < elichai2> hmmmm
07:40 < elichai2> that's right
07:41 < elichai2> so if you signed the same thing twice we need to make sure that no one can know what's gonna be your nonce
07:42 < elichai2> and because we can't know if anyone else is doing the same without some ZKP then they can be malicious, cool, thanks :)
07:44 < nickler> yeah, big PITA
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16:14 < elichai2> Hi, which PR is the actual BIP-schnorr PR? #558 or #461? or is the first bip-schnorr and the other Musig?
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16:20 < sipa> elichai2: 461 is just batch EC multiplication
16:20 < sipa> it's a building block for batch schnorr validation, but doesn't do anything schnorr specific
16:20 < sipa> there's no PR to bitcoin-core/secp256k1 for musig yet (we have one in the elements repo)
16:22 < elichai2> ohh it's for batch verification, ok. (I want to read the implementation so I can understand it better and maybe somehow have insights, if i'll finish the schnorr PR and pay-to-contract ones I might go to elements for Musig)
16:22 < elichai2> THanks!
17:26 < elichai2> It's frustrating that BIP schnorr uses additive notation but the Musig paper uses multiplicative :/ it's confusing to compare stuff
17:28  * sipa can't read multiplicative stuff
17:28 < sipa> i always rewrite things in additive for myself
17:29 < sipa> but in the academic context for which the MuSig paper is written, multiplicative is overwhelmingly common, and within cryptocurrency/implementation circles, additive is more common :)
17:32 < elichai2> I'm with you! Additive is way more readable, but people like to bash additive notations online :/ I wished all papers used additive (it's easier to read and easier to then implement code that looks like the equations)
17:32 < sipa> i think it's just a matter of what you're used to
17:32 < sipa> some colleagues of mine can't read additive :p
17:32 < sipa> (or at least, have a harder time understanding)
17:33 < elichai2> A lot of people here were very angry lol https://twitter.com/oleganza/status/1103367401096110080
17:33 < sipa> i saw that thread
17:33 < elichai2> For me besides the reading I can then write code that looks great! i.e. https://github.com/elichai/ecc-secp256k1/blob/master/src/secp256k1.rs#L153
17:33 < elichai2> this looks exactly like the equations. (this isn't a production code, don't worry)
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--- Log closed Fri Jun 14 00:00:41 2019