Re: [bitcoin-dev] Why OpenTimestamps does not "linearize" its transactions

From: Andrew Poelstra <apoelstra@wpsoftware•net>
To: "Undiscussed Horrific Abuse,
	One Victim of Many" <gmkarl@gmail•com>,
	Bitcoin Protocol Discussion
	<bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Why OpenTimestamps does not "linearize" its transactions
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2022 20:33:01 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <YqjwfUcgEMNpGV1U@camus> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CALL-=e4=p9oQvAxm-dWTNwPOYb5D2kwdLjCtePpCnwNnL9bNVQ@mail.gmail.com>

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2107 bytes --]

On Tue, Jun 14, 2022 at 01:15:08PM -0400, Undiscussed Horrific Abuse, One Victim of Many via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> I'm replying to Peter, skipping the other emails.
> 
> I perceive all these emails as disruptive trolling, ignoring the
> importance of real timestamping, while handwaving about things that
> are roughly false and harmful.
> 
> Since the start of cryptocurrency, Bitcoin has been used to write
> timestamps that stay intact despite malicious action to arbitrary
> systems and records, showing the earliest on-chain publication of
> data. It seems misleading that OTS does not do that, when it is such a
> prominent system.
>

Please be cautious with tone and when assuming bad faith. I don't believe
that Peter is trolling. Also, as politely as I can, when something like
OTS whose model is dead-simple, well-documented, and has been running for
years providing significant value to many people, comes under attack for
being underspecified or failing to do what it says ... this is a
surprising claim, to say the least.

After talking to a few people offline, all of whom are baffled at this
entire conversation, I think the issue might come down to the way that
people interpret "timestamping".

If you believe that "timestamping" means providing a verifiable ordering
to events, then of course OTS does not accomplish this, nor has it ever
claimed to. If you think that "timestamping" means proving that some
data existed at a particular time, then this is exactly what OTS does.

Personally -- and I suspect this is true of Peter as well -- I have always
read the word as having the latter meaning, and it never occurred to me
until now that others might have a different interpretation.

I apologize for contributing to a thread that is getting a bit out of hand,
but I hope this can help the different parties see where the confusion is.

-- 
Andrew Poelstra
Director of Research, Blockstream
Email: apoelstra at wpsoftware.net
Web:   https://www.wpsoftware.net/andrew

The sun is always shining in space
    -Justin Lewis-Webster

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 488 bytes --]