--- Day changed Tue Sep 30 2008
00:18 < ybit> grr
00:19 < ybit> the too much pressur around the keyboard area on my lappy causes the screen to go blank. it may or may not display if you shake it. not sure what the magnet is doing
00:19 < ybit> np Nofaris_
00:19 < ybit> the more, the better imo
00:19 < superturtle> pressure on the kb on a lptop causing the lcd to go blank?
00:20 < superturtle> *laptop
00:20 < ybit> yep
00:20 < superturtle> is it a fade-out of the type that LCDs do when they are in trouble?
00:20 < ybit> that or it's just displaying blackness
00:20 < superturtle> or just total video card failness
00:21 < ybit> fade out
00:21 < superturtle> I predict a metal contact under your kb
00:22 < ybit> guess i should open it up and find out
00:29 < ybit> kpf
00:30 < ybit> now that's extremely simple
00:42 < ybit> http://71.207.240.143:8001/ -- my music collection, minus my CDs which vastly outnumbers the number albums on the computer. keep putting off ripping them
00:42 < ybit> i really like the ease of the kpf icon on kicker
00:42  * superturtle just made a playlist of all of his music
00:42 < superturtle> 34k mp3s
00:43 < ybit> wow
00:43 < ybit> i think ampache is actually the way to go with sharing music
00:44 < ybit> (listen before downloading type music server)
00:44 < ybit> amarok 2.0 supposedly will support ampache as well
00:45 < superturtle> I used to have a perl-based icecast station or something
00:45 < superturtle> so everyone could stream their own mp3s
00:46 < ybit> if you look at the collection and see alkj3l8s02ks03u0s93l.mp3 those are files i grabbed directly from hypem.com's mirrors, the files contain the correct metadata with artist name, album, etc
00:47 < ybit> superturtle: is that just mp3s?
00:47 < superturtle> don't remember
00:47 < ybit> what's the ratio of mp3s to flac?
00:47 < superturtle> huh?
00:47 < ybit> k
00:47 < ybit> .flac files
00:47 < ybit> lossless audio
00:47 < ybit> open source
00:47 < superturtle> not many.
00:48 < ybit> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flac
00:49 < ybit> http://what.cd has quite a collection of flac files, like oink.cd before it was closed; too bad it's difficult to gain access what.cd 
00:49 < kanzure> what.cd died, I thought
00:49 < kanzure> oink.cd I mean
00:49 < kanzure> oh
00:49 < kanzure> I have a few friends on the *.cd's if you want referrals or something
00:50 < ybit> you have to pass an interview/test for what.cd
00:51 < ybit> irc.what.cd
00:53 < ybit> #what.cd-invites
00:54 < ybit> if i have time to study audio transcoding during a break, i might try to join again (yes i failed the test)
00:54 < ybit> you only have to miss one question to fail
00:55 < kanzure> Has anyone ever considered phylogenetic tree analysis for dating service assistance? The reason why everybody mistakes everyone else for each other is because it's just recombinant alleles floating around the pools; so surely there's some predictive accuracy from their local history to broadly match against ancestry information from other people's branches.
00:55 < kanzure> Audio transcoding?
00:55 < kanzure> Hm.
01:04 < ybit> not sure if there's a demand for phylogenetic analysis, unless maybe you live in the South ;)
01:05 < superturtle> no, the idea is that people are stumbling upon similar phenotypes in totally different branches of the trees in the populations
01:06 -!- superturtle is now known as kanzure_
01:27 -!- fenn_ is now known as fenn
01:28 < kanzure_> http://sup.rubyforge.org/ mutt client that understands folders and smtp
01:28 < kanzure_> newsbeuter - cli rss reader
01:29 < ybit> so much for a quick, intense gaming session. 
01:29 < ybit> kanzure, are you trying to stick to the cli for everything?
01:29 < kanzure> clicking sucks.
01:29 < ybit> before long you will be using awesome wm with firefox and vimperator :)
01:30 < kanzure> *you* try clicking a million times.
01:30 < ybit> it hurts, i know
01:36 < kanzure> hm, that's odd, one of the iGEM categories this year is 'manufacturing'
01:36 < kanzure> Food or Energy, Environment, Health or Medicine, Manufacturing, New Application, Foundational Advance, Software
01:47 < h2i> in my case now, more clicking is good
01:51 < ybit> hehe, i have nsync xmas in audio :P
01:52 < ybit> don't hurt me
01:52  * ybit quickly deletes and hopes no one noticed...
03:19 < kanzure> http://www.latepatents.net/
03:23 < kanzure> hm
03:23 < kanzure> http://onebigtorrent.org/torrents/70/The-Take
03:23 < kanzure> huh,.
04:00 < ybit> i like mike's response and links
04:01 < ybit> latepatents is like a toy shop for us kids
04:02 < kanzure> http://www.cs.miami.edu/~tptp/  The TPTP Problem Library for Automated Theorem Solvers
04:10 < kanzure> fenn: did you see the machines img archive?
04:14 < fenn> eh?
04:15 < kanzure_>  I've decided to just take random images from the net as examples of surface contact problems
04:15 < kanzure_> i.e., 'find exceptions to the rule'
04:15 < kanzure_> to try to make a better repository format than what's currently in the /~bbishop/docs/repo/ dir.
04:15 < fenn> fractal A meets random cellular automata B
04:15 < kanzure_> a fractal is a discrete part?
04:15 < fenn> i dont think its possible to cover all cases
04:16 < kanzure_> right
04:16 < kanzure_> but still.
04:16 < kanzure_> is my but still valid?
04:16 < fenn> there are physical artifacts that resemble computer generated fractal images
04:16 < kanzure_> up to some n, no?
04:16 < kanzure_> some iteration
04:16 < fenn> down to the resolution of atoms
04:17 < fenn> google "silver dendrite"
04:20 < kanzure_> I was thinking that I'd do it by specifying the shape of the intersecting surface or something.
04:21 < fenn> solids dont intersect
04:21 < fenn> not real ones at least
04:21 < kanzure_> they sit next to each other
04:21 < kanzure_> screw in a screwhole
04:21 < fenn> bah
04:21 < kanzure_> wtf?
04:23 < kanzure_> consider n beams of metals with slots for their interconnection
04:23 < fenn> you should know about asperities and bearing contact area and so on
04:23 < kanzure_> don't make me cite combinatorics on you.
04:23 < kanzure_> okay
04:23 < fenn> don't math out on me
04:24 < kanzure_> cosine to the pi gee.
04:24 < fenn> werd
04:25 < fenn> surface roughness is often given in root-mean-square millionths of an inch
04:25 < fenn> or microns
04:26 < fenn> um. yeh
04:26 < kanzure_> I'm trying to figure out a simple example of rigid, solid bodies that have ambiguous definitions in the current repository format, even though they are made of the same parts
04:26 < kanzure_> my '3D geometry of a car' (where the geom is assembled from the known parts) example hasn't been working out too well.
04:27 < fenn> what you mean by ambiguous?
04:27 < kanzure_> "1 metal plate, another metal plate, a pin in between them" <-- how many different implementations of this can you imagine?
04:28 < fenn> uh, none?
04:28 < kanzure_> both have holes.
04:28 < kanzure_> screw you.
04:28 < kanzure_> har har har
07:14 < ybit> http://www.csse.uwa.edu.au/~pk/research/matlabfns/ -- someone was porting to this to python at once, me thinks
07:14 < ybit> -at
10:23  * fenn mumbles something about personal electronic widgets with roll-out laser projector screens
12:49 < kanzure> some of these people just flat out suck
12:49 < kanzure> "If we can work out a logical way to "do" tax/ rent then perhaps we can use a similar model to fund Open Manufacturing research and development?"
12:51 < kanzure_> BREAKING NEWS: Stuffing Cash Under Your Mattress bought out by Keeping Cash in Mason Jar In The Garage
12:52 < UtopiahGHML> Smart World: Breakthrough Creativity and the New Science of Ideas
12:52 < UtopiahGHML> By Richard Ogle
12:52 < UtopiahGHML> Published by Harvard Business School Press, 2007
12:52 < UtopiahGHML> ISBN 1591394171, 9781591394174
12:52 < UtopiahGHML> someone checked that already?
12:53 < kanzure_> No, but it sounds like TRIX, combinatorics, ideonomics, etc. What new idea does Ogle propose?
12:53 < UtopiahGHML> seems to be "idea-spaces"
12:53 < UtopiahGHML> a set of nodes in a network of people (and their ideas) that cohere and take on a distinctive set of characteristics anddynamics leading to the generation of breakthrough ideas.
12:54 < UtopiahGHML> he tries to establishes "law" of such spaces
12:54 < kanzure_> it's social?
12:54 < kanzure_> normally ideaspaces are personal
12:54 < kanzure_> http://heybryan.org/thinking.html
12:54 < UtopiahGHML> could be part of the "distributed mind" perspective
12:54 < kanzure_> fuck :(
12:55 < kanzure_> while I wouldn't mind my brain in a jar a few miles away, 
12:55 < kanzure_> that's usually not what the 'distributed mind' people are talking about
12:55 < UtopiahGHML> I link to think about giant sequoias
12:55 < kanzure_> what?
12:55 < UtopiahGHML> they basically support each other thanks to their network of roots
12:56 < UtopiahGHML> as to basically not being able to be efficient in an environment alone
12:56 < UtopiahGHML> thus thinking in a vaccum (and being educated too)
12:56 < UtopiahGHML> can be illusionary
12:56 < kanzure_> of course - there is nothing from the void
12:56 < UtopiahGHML> so the distributed mind doesn't seem ridiculous to me
12:56 < kanzure_> see my thinking.html page
12:56 < kanzure_> no, it's just a reference to the wrong people you see
12:56 < kanzure_> usually they're talking about the 'smart mob' crap
12:56 < kanzure_> and you can't just divine a mob from the void either ;-)
12:57 < UtopiahGHML> well I didn't get through his book (yet) so I can't say more
12:57 < UtopiahGHML> that's actually why Im asking
12:57 < kanzure_> go put http://twobits.net/ on your list too. it's less about creativity and more about those social aspects.
12:57 < kanzure_> also, if you want, I can give you access to my 'creativity book collection'
12:58 < kanzure_> it's basically the same stuff said over and over again :/
12:58 < UtopiahGHML> meaning?
12:58 < kanzure_> there's always the requisite mention of memorization methods
12:58 < kanzure_> always the requisite mention of drugs and psychotropics
12:59 < kanzure_> Feynman, Tesla, Asimov, Poincare, nothing new
12:59 < kanzure_> see thinking.html ;-) I've compressed/condensed it all
12:59 < fenn> Tesla?
12:59 < kanzure_> mm
13:00 < fenn> tesla was physiologically different
13:01 < kanzure_> no doubt
13:01 < fenn> he had headaches, strange visions, and suffered from being aroudn peaches
13:01 < kanzure_> physiological augmentation should count
13:01 < UtopiahGHML> I personnaly bet on evolutionary espistemology
13:01  * kanzure_ somehow skipped the Tesla idolation phase and went straight to Leibniz
13:01 < UtopiahGHML> creativity is just an evo algo...
13:01 < kanzure_> UtopiahGHML: sure
13:02 < kanzure_> somewhat
13:02 < kanzure_> I mean, you have to be careful with who you're saying that to
13:02 < kanzure_> with some people that means different things
13:02 < UtopiahGHML> ?
13:02 < kanzure_> around here, to us, you're talking complexity science
13:02 < kanzure_> but again, the 'smart mob' people are off in another realm sometimes
13:02 < fenn> creativity is a function of humans which are a product of evolution :)
13:02 < kanzure_> eh
13:03 < fenn> i wouldnt say "creativity is just an evo algo" though
13:03 < fenn> i mean GA's are stupid
13:03 < kanzure_> so are humans?
13:03 < kanzure_> oh wait
13:03 < fenn> not in the way that GA's are
13:03 < kanzure_> was it you who mentioned shouting at GAs when they don't choose the obviously right path to go?
13:04 < kanzure_> when they just graze by the right set of combinations etc.
13:04 < fenn> notme
13:04 < kanzure_> must've been steve
13:04 < fenn> i know better than to try to get a GA to do real work :)
13:04 < nsh> genetic algorithms are stoopid
13:04 < kanzure_> do you know better than trying to get a person to do real work?
13:04 < fenn> yep
13:04 < UtopiahGHML> thinking we are smart is a human bias :)
13:05 < UtopiahGHML> there is not proof that being smart is actually positive
13:05 < kanzure_> not many people in here think they are smart
13:05 < UtopiahGHML> so even it's all GA based doesn't mean it's not "sufficient"
13:05 < kanzure_> GA + a little kick now and then to get out of ruts
13:05 < kanzure_> but that isn't enough either of course
13:05 < fenn> UtopiahGHML: "there is not proof that being smart is actually positive" is a statement of your value system, so who cares
13:05 < kanzure_> heh
13:06 < UtopiahGHML> fenn: what is not?
13:06 < kanzure_> fenn: UtopiahGHML comes from #opencog; his background seems to be the ai community
13:06 < kanzure_> UtopiahGHML: I like to yell at the agi community in here for most of the reasons that you're talking about
13:06 < kanzure_> or most of the topics that you're talking about, I mean
13:07 < UtopiahGHML> glad to participate in your passions :)
13:07 < kanzure_> so, for example, my aim isn't really intelligence augmentation
13:07 < kanzure_> well
13:07 < kanzure_> *-augmentation
13:07 < kanzure_> my aim isn't intelligence since that concept is too fuzzy
13:07 < fenn> do you mean "human-like smarts are not the best way to build an AI-ish system"?
13:07 < kanzure_> what the hell is the I?
13:07 < fenn> i'm just trying to figure out how someone could think smart = bad
13:07 < UtopiahGHML> the ability to handle a never encountered situation
13:08 < fenn> religious arguments aside
13:08 < UtopiahGHML> fenn: that's not what I said
13:08 < kanzure_> on that note, http://groups.google.com/group/openmanufacturing/ I posted an email about how smart people making stupid decisions about complex systems .. everybody knows it, but it keeps on being rediscovered too late by others. 
13:08  * kanzure_ heads off to class
13:08 < fenn> i discarded "there is not proof" part because there isn't proof of anything
13:09 < kanzure_> 59394
13:09 < fenn> because it's a Hard Problem
13:09 < UtopiahGHML> what I meant by that is that staying that GA are stupid so we "must have sth extra" doesn't sound correct to me
13:09 < fenn> but we do have something extra
13:10 < fenn> that's why GA's do confounded stupid things all the time, and people generally behave somewhat predictable
13:10 < UtopiahGHML> so what is that sth extra?
13:10 < fenn> hell if i know
13:10 < UtopiahGHML> to me GA are "stupid enough" if you will.
13:11 < fenn> history of AI has been littered with people trying to say their particular narrow approach has all the answers
13:11 < fenn> (and failing)
13:11 < UtopiahGHML> but you have to go further than the GA you learned in your AI class that takes no heuristic or manipulate no complex strategies since those can be also population of your GA (as in metaGA basically)
13:12 < fenn> is metaGA something specific?
13:12 < UtopiahGHML> no, it's just a GA
13:13 < UtopiahGHML> but it's the same idea that Lisp
13:13 < UtopiahGHML> data is code, code is data
13:13 < UtopiahGHML> so data of a metaGA can be GA too
13:13 < UtopiahGHML> and that's "stupid enough"
13:13 < UtopiahGHML> to handle pretty much anything IMHO
13:14 < fenn> so, as an example, you'd have a GA that designs fitness functions?
13:15 < faceface> I'd make a GA to design that GA
13:15 < fenn> and then grows sub-ga's to fit them
13:15 < UtopiahGHML> the idea is to stop think functionnal basically
13:15 < UtopiahGHML> data are not "dead" pieces of information
13:15 < faceface> kanzure, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17406674
13:15 < fenn> what data?
13:16 < UtopiahGHML> as you said, it can be fitness or anything else
13:16 < UtopiahGHML> heuristics, GA, etc...
13:16 < fenn> how can fitness not be the result of a function?
13:17 < UtopiahGHML> what is not a function?
13:17 < fenn> argh
13:17  * fenn hates AI people
13:17  * nsh puts on his darth voice
13:17 < nsh> goooood, feel the hate young one
13:17 < nsh> feel its power
13:17 < UtopiahGHML> don't worry, they don't hate you back.
13:17 < UtopiahGHML> well I guess some do actually but... ;)
13:18  * fenn slices off nsh's cyborg-hand
13:26 < UtopiahGHML> fenn: anyway depiste what I said before I think "intelligence" is a key competitive advantage
13:28  * nsh takes notes
13:28 < UtopiahGHML> but I don't think I meet the requirements for it
13:28 < UtopiahGHML> thus my bet on AI :P
16:03 < faceface> UtopiahGHML, computational evolutionary dynamics?
16:34 < kanzure__> All hail the good word of debian.
16:34 < fenn> zoot
16:34 < kanzure__> sound?
16:35 < kanzure__> before I poison the system with kde, any recommendations?
16:35 < fenn> sound?
16:35 < kanzure__> is 'zoot' a sound?
16:35 < fenn> yes
16:35 < fenn> it's the noise a kazoo makes
16:36 < fenn> what's this about kde?
16:36 < kanzure__> :p
16:36 < kanzure__> kidding.
16:37 < kanzure__> I haven't tried ratpoison yet. but somebody also recently mentioned awesomewm.
16:37 < fenn> ratpoison is (literally) a joke
16:37 < fenn> hmm what was the alternative to ion?
16:38 < kanzure__> ion2?
16:38 < fenn> wmii
16:39 < fenn> i have an aversion to experimenting with window managers for long enough to notice any benefits, so no recommendations from the peanut gallery this time
16:40 < kanzure__> bkero should have a few suggestions :)
16:40 < bkero> wmii
16:40 < bkero> awesomewm
16:40 < bkero> dwm
16:40 < bkero> I'm using wmii as we speak.
16:40 < kanzure__> heh'
16:47 < kanzure__> bkero: How do I undo Alt+Shift+L or move to the left or make a column on the left instead of the right?
16:48 < bkero> kanzure__: in wmii?
16:49 < kanzure__> yes
16:49 < bkero> kanzure__: In wmii, left is h, j is down, k is up, l is right
16:49 < kanzure__> blah
16:49 < kanzure__> k
16:49 < bkero> alt+shift+j moves to the left
16:49 < kanzure__> and undoing a column?
16:50 < bkero> move everything out of it
16:51 < bkero> If I have 2 columns, each with 3 things, I can move one in the right column right AGAIN to make a third column.
16:53 < kanzure__> ah, I see, 'shift' is like having sticky hands
16:53 < kanzure__> sticky fingers.
16:53 < kanzure__> erm.
16:54 < kanzure__> Not sure I like the idea of having no taskbar.
16:55 < bkero> shift is to move windows around, no shift is to switch which window is active.
16:55 < bkero> shift+p runs a program
16:55 < bkero> er, alt+p
16:56 < fenn> dont these keyboard commands conflict with other programs?
16:58 < bkero> You can change the Mod key in the wmii config
16:58 < bkero> I use the window key
16:59 < fenn> am i the only person who resents having a windows logo on my keyboard?
16:59 < kanzure__> as of yet I haven't seen anything ever using the windows logo key, except on Windows platforms, where it calls up the 'start menu'
16:59 < bkero> fenn: My keyboard at home doesn't have a windows key. ;)
16:59 < bkero> kanzure__: Eee's have a 'home' key. ;)
16:59 < fenn> you.. you.. clicky lover!
16:59 < kanzure__> replaced it with a panic button? :)
16:59 < kanzure__> ah
17:00 < bkero> My keyboard was made before windows.
17:01 < kanzure__> bkero: How do I change the alt key setting? Dillo conflicts apparently.
17:01 < kanzure__> although dillo doesn't explicitly define that it conflicts
17:01 < kanzure__> naughty.
17:01 < bkero> kanzure__: see your /home/kanzure/.wmii-3.5/ folder?
17:02 < bkero> copy the files in /usr/local/etc/wmii-3.5/ into it
17:02 < bkero> then edit the file called wmiirc
17:02 < bkero> The MODKEY is what you want to change.  You can also change the terminal colors.  Mine is WMII_TERM="xterm -fg green -bg black"
17:03 < kanzure__> hm. /usr/local/etc/ is empty. Also, it's not in /etc/wm* either. 
17:03 < kanzure__> debian installation here.
17:03 < bkero> find / -name wmiirc
17:03 < kanzure__> nothing in ~/.wmii-3 either
17:04 < kanzure__> bkero: ah, okay, do I just need to copy the wmiirc file?
17:05 < bkero> I'd copy all 3
17:05 < kanzure__> I wonder what the windows key is anyway.
17:05 < kanzure__> alt = "Mod1" apparently
17:06 < bkero> Yes
17:06 < kanzure__> you know, this isn't that bad.
17:06 < bkero> Make sure which mod key your window key corresponds to.
17:06 < bkero> also if you alt+2, you'll goto a new workspace.  shift+alt+2 moves a window there :)
17:07 < bkero> Workspaces without anything in them are automatically destroyed.
17:07 < kanzure__> And to move a window back?
17:07 < kanzure__> and to cycle?
17:07 < bkero> goto the workspace, and shift+alt+1
17:08 < fenn> prolly alt+tab to cycle
17:09 < bkero> Nope
17:10 < fenn> no task bar, so do you ever have windows hidden by other windows?
17:10 < fenn> or minimized or whatever
17:10 < kanzure__> you can opt to
17:10 < kanzure__> alt+shift+d means the silly cascade version
17:10 < kanzure__> alt+shift+l means to make a new column for more silly cascading
17:10 < kanzure__> alt+shift+s for stack mode
17:10 < kanzure__> alt+shift+m for max mode
17:10 < kanzure__> erm, not cascading, sorry
17:10 < kanzure__> tiling.
17:12 < fenn> how do you keep your terminals from getting stretched out of shape?
17:12 < bkero> What do you mean out of shape?
17:14 < fenn> well for example if you have a screen multiple session, one will look weird if you change the window size (ctl-a ctl-f to fix)
17:14 < bkero> All my screens have resized themselves without problem.
17:15 < fenn> do screen -x in two terms
17:15 < kanzure__> blargh, so far it doesn't seem lik dillo allows to navigate from link to link like in lynx (left/right arrow)
17:15 < fenn> resize them to different shapes
17:15 < bkero> I do
17:15 < kanzure__> this doesn't sound right.
17:15 < bkero> It just puts ====='s to limit the window size to the smallest connected
17:15 < fenn> kanzure__: dillo has a lot of stupid usability problems that should be easy to fix
17:15 < bkero> Be a man, use w3m
17:16 < kanzure__> you mean to say that people know about dillo's problems?
17:16 < kanzure__> dillo always seems to be underactive in development
17:16 < kanzure__> undermanned, I mean
17:16 < fenn> i dunno, it looks totally abandoned to me
17:16 < kanzure__> right
17:17 < fenn> so, this webkit thing is supposed to be fast, but that's relative to firepig
17:17 < fenn> i wonder how it compares to dillo
17:17 < kanzure__> somehow it runs on cell phone platforms
17:17 < kanzure__> webkit, I mean
17:17 < bkero> I run it on my phone.
17:17 < bkero> Works pretty well.
17:17  * kanzure__ has never been able to get webkit to compile, or usably compile
17:17 < kanzure__> isn't w3m that line browser?
17:18 < fenn> w3m is like lynx
17:18 < kanzure__> what's my alternative to dillo?
17:18 < fenn> let me know if you find out
17:18 < fenn> fennec maybe
17:18 < kanzure__> links2 was interesting the other day, but I'm not interested in xterm browsers really
17:18 < kanzure__> fennec isn't found in the apt repositories
17:19 < fenn> it's alpha
17:20 < bkero> use w3m
17:20 < kanzure__> but it's cli
17:23 < bkero> No it's not
17:23 < kanzure__> it's running in my CLI :)
17:23 < bkero> Ah
17:23 < bkero> I think there's an X version
17:24 < fenn> is there some way to apt-cache search for packages? like apt-cache show w3m*
17:24 < bkero> apt-cache search w3m
17:24 < kanzure__> fenn: you didn't know about apt-cache search? really? :)
17:24 < fenn> i probably did and forgot
17:25 < fenn> thanks lazyweb
17:28 < kanzure__> hah, w3m-img. neat.
17:35 < kanzure__> any ideas on getting w3m with the lynx key bindings?
17:41 < kanzure__> w3m keymap http://www.lafn.org/~aw585/keymap.html
17:45 < kanzure__> and doesn't alt+1 / alt+2 interfere with irssi's configuration? blah.
17:45 < bkero> So switch your mod key in wmii
17:49 < kanzure__> I don't know how to figure out what the 'windows' key is in the language of 'ALT'='Mod1'. 
17:50 < kanzure__> it occurs to me that there should be some way to wrap apps and watch for key presses, thus making silly ghost-layers when an application is being stubborn. /me fetches the dillo source tree.
17:50 < bkero> Damn it
17:50 < bkero> The guy who was supposed to be housing me in new york backed out
18:33 < kanzure__> until I figure out the gtk/dillo keyboard binding nonsense (shouldn't this be a separate file?), opera 9.6* will have to do (new version :)). still has good keyboard bindings.
19:07 < kanzure__> wow, the design repo is even more useless than before now that the FCM/DSM ('function component' and 'design structure' matrices) fail to produce any usable information
19:07 < kanzure__> the DSMs are just excel spreadsheets with a table, where the vertical is the list of subcomponents, and the horizontal is the list of subcomponents too
19:08 < kanzure__> and then at each intersection of each subcomponent with its subcomponent, there's a 1
19:08 < kanzure__> and then there's a 0 otherwise
19:08 < kanzure__> making the entire table completely worthless.
19:18 < kanzure__> interesting .. what I think they're doing is all off of the ontology of material flows, i.e. an app that wants HTML will bark at you because of PDF (or, ideally, malformed HTML, but that's just a pipedream)
19:23 < kanzure__> does anyone have the XML DTD that they were using?
19:23  * kanzure__ trots back to the cafeteria.
20:09 < kanzure> would be useful if I just dumped it to a mysql db.
20:09 < kanzure> does anyone know of an xml->db exporter thingy?
21:46 < kanzure___> eh. I'm not sure the DTD exists.
21:53 -!- Nade|sleep is now known as Nade
22:48 < ybit> you could also try xmonad (lighter code base if you are concerned with bloatware) http://xmonad.org  [kanzure]
22:49 < ybit> for the browser, you really might want to try vimperator+firefox if you are using a tiled wm [kanzure]
23:20 < kanzure___> ybit: firefox can't handle more than 10 tabs
23:20 < kanzure___> Opera has fantastic keyboard bindings
23:44 < ybit> are you referring to how much memory firefox uses with 10+ tabs? [kanzure]
23:54 < kanzure_> yes, but also that it starts to lock up because it's spending all of its time sequentially working on each thread