--- Day changed Sat Jan 02 2010
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00:21 < genehacker> oh almost forgot, remind the people going to the meeting about the sparkfun free electronics deal(Jan 8th $100 worth of free stuff for the first 1000 people to claim it), we might want to pool resources to get a bunch of sweet loot for something hackerspacey
00:23 < genehacker> say RFID readers and chips for an entry system
00:35 < bkero> Can I claim it from Oregon?
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02:33 < randallagordon> bkero, where in Oregon are you?
02:33 < randallagordon> I'm in Lebanon
02:56 < bkero> randallagordon: Corvallis
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04:09 < genehacker> sure claim it anywhere
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04:19 < Aliks> hello
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08:46 < kanzure> does anyone have a favorite datasheet for an electronics part?
09:08 < kanzure> someone should figure out a way to efficiently use a mechanical turk to type up electronics datasheets. $1/page maybe?
09:09 < kanzure> or just parse the PDFs directly- i saw some python once that did this, but it was only for atmel.com datasheets, and it looked old/broken so it had to be updated anyway
09:09 < kanzure> but if most data sheets follow the same format (from a particular supplier) then it should be possible to write up a parser
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09:17 < kanzure> someone needs to pirate this: http://www.comsol.com/conference/cd/
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09:34 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Throat_singing
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12:06 < KrisC> hello all
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12:18 < KrisC> I
12:20 < KrisC> I'm considering exploring step file format. Kanzure's dislike of meshes in lieu of solid geometry had me looking for differences
12:22 < KrisC> STEPs distincion as the biggest ISO standard really turns me off. I've been worrying about material metadata in my STLs
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13:57 < randallagordon> kanzure, did you see the question I asked yesterday? "is there any specific CNC and other fab equipment you're aiming to make SKDB work with? I assume the idea is to make it universal, so packages can define what equipment is necessary, but I'd also guess you have some "endorsed" equipment in mind?"
13:58 < randallagordon> I'm looking to buy or build a router table, so if I can get/build something that I can use to benefit forwarding SKDB, I shall
13:59 < randallagordon> Seriously considering a ShopBot at the moment
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16:24 < randallagordon> Hey Aliks
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17:30 < kanzure> KrisC: can you explain what's wrong with STEP? 
17:31 < kanzure> randallagordon: if you're going to build a router table, i suggest http://mechmate.com/ since i have one and will be able to work with it
17:32 < kanzure> randallagordon: i don't have a shopbot so if you get one, i'm not going to necessarily know everything about it :) but i can make guesses
17:34 < El_Matarife> Suggestion: Joe
17:34 < El_Matarife> Joes' CNC is a MUCH easier first build since it requires no welding
17:35 < El_Matarife> The mechmate is better for commercial use and more robust, but it does cost significantly more
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17:40 < kanzure> El_Matarife: link?
17:41 < El_Matarife> http://www.joescnc.com/
17:41 < El_Matarife> Maybe $2,000 or less for a full build
17:41 < El_Matarife> Lots of mods and an active user community on his forum
17:41 < kanzure> looks like he just offers PDF files
17:42 < kanzure> for $100 USD
17:42 < kanzure> wtf
17:42 < kanzure> someone needs to torrent that shit
17:42 < El_Matarife> The files are tagged with your name
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17:42 < kanzure> El_Matarife: it's easy to remove those tags
17:42 < El_Matarife> He's not making any huge amount of money, I've met the guy
17:43 < kanzure> randallagordon: i highly recommend you make an open source cnc machine or router table, if anything 
17:43 < El_Matarife> He's just trying to offset his costs for the most part
17:43 < randallagordon> I certainly intend to
17:43 < kanzure> El_Matarife: although i do like that he's selling kits. good for him :)
17:44 < randallagordon> I'm thinking the ShopBot provides a ready made solution, which I can then use to make parts for all the various projects that are available so I can directly weigh the pros & cons of each
17:44 < El_Matarife> His first gen machine is open source now, I assume the current 4x4 hybrid will be after he finishes designing the rack & pinion 4x4 with rotary axis
17:44 < randallagordon> I'd love to have several, especially for testing purposes, re: SKDB
17:44 < El_Matarife> There's a lot of other commercial options, namely EZ-Router and K2 CNC
17:44 < kanzure> shopbot costs a few $10k
17:44 < El_Matarife> The EZ-Router guys are pretty great from what I understand
17:44 < randallagordon> We're budgeting $60k for our project, so that isn't an issue
17:45 < kanzure> who is we?
17:45 < kanzure> is it your local hackerspace?
17:45 < randallagordon> My partner...we're investigating also opening a hackerspace once we get the equipment
17:45 < kanzure> okay
17:45 < kanzure> well, shopbot will do the trick
17:45 < randallagordon> But we're needing it for making store fixutres and POP displays
17:45 < El_Matarife> I keep having to specify "my BUSINESS partner" lol
17:46 < El_Matarife> saying "my partner" makes you sound gay these days
17:46 < kanzure> not in here
17:46 < randallagordon> So we need something that is quite mature "out of the box" since there will be non-geeks using the equipment
17:46 < kanzure> randallagordon: i see. shopbot is definitely out-of-the-box
17:46 < randallagordon> Myself, I'd not hesitate to start with a MechMate...if I were building it in my garage, that's exactly what I'd go for
17:46 < kanzure> and i hear there's a big shopbot mod(ifier) community
17:47 < randallagordon> There deifnitely is...they seem to be very OS friendly, if not directly OS
17:47 < kanzure> i'd ask martyn when he shows up in here again. i'm sure he's played with a shopbot before.
17:47 < kanzure> randallagordon: ted hall (founder of shopbot) is on the openmanufacturing list, by the way
17:47 < randallagordon> I intend to snag the 3D scanner probe and lathe attachments as well
17:47 < kanzure> and i'm sure he'd love to plug shopbot in a public discussion with you on that
17:47 < randallagordon> I noticed that, I was reading through some of the ShopBot related posts on the list
17:47 < kanzure> ah good
17:48 < kanzure> again the only downside is that we can't put a shopbot *into* skdb
17:48 < randallagordon> Having all the "extras" easily available is the big attraction at the moment
17:48 < kanzure> shopbot will definitely work with skdb
17:48 < kanzure> just won't have the designs "skdberized"
17:50 < randallagordon> What's your opinion of their "open CNC syntax"? OpenSBP?
17:51 < kanzure> haven't ever used it, sadly
17:51 < randallagordon> Think that would be a good "mediator" for SKDB to use to talk to "all" CNC equipment?
17:52 < kanzure> what about gcode?
17:54 < randallagordon> I'm a complete CNC noob until I get my hands on some gear to toy with, so I'm just throwing stuff out there :)
17:54 < kanzure> ah
17:54 < kanzure> gcode has been around "forever" and is the de facto standard
17:55 < kanzure> but i wouldn't mind exporting into both gcode and opensbp
17:55 < randallagordon> From the few blurbs I've read on OpenSBP, it extends beyond the capabilities of gcode?
17:55 < randallagordon> Aye
17:55 < kanzure> nothing against it :)
17:55 < kanzure> not yet, anyway :)
17:55 < randallagordon> hehe, well, I'll let ya know when/if I get one ;)
17:55 < kanzure> jason wohlfahrt took some photos today from our buildout at the austin hackerspace
17:56 < randallagordon> We're certainly going to procure a router of some sort within the year, though
17:56 < randallagordon> Nice
17:56 < El_Matarife> I might have to come down to Austin to see that
17:56 < kanzure> hell yes :)
17:56 < kanzure> with his fancy new HD camera
17:56 < El_Matarife> I was just as a user group meeting and some people were talking about how there's some scripts being written to output g-code from Blender
17:56 < kanzure> don't know where he is right now, i want the photos uploaded
17:56 < kanzure> El_Matarife: noooo
17:56 < kanzure> blender is not a CAD tool
17:57 < kanzure> but you can do STL->gcode, it's true
17:57 < El_Matarife> Yeah but for 3D relief carving it seems like a good starting point
17:57 < kanzure> i wish people would model in CAD and just convert to meshes later
17:57 < kanzure> ok sure
17:57 < kanzure> alright that's better i guess
17:57 < El_Matarife> I don't want to have to go drop $2,000 on Vectric Aspire but I guess I am going to have to do it
17:57 < randallagordon> Use the tool that suits what you're doing :)
17:57 < kanzure> carving is a different application than what i was exdpecting
17:57 < kanzure> El_Matarife: i don't think you should have to
17:57 < El_Matarife> Since open source CAD / CAM is really in its infancy right now
17:58 < kanzure> if you need CAM you should check out http://linuxcnc.org/
17:58 < El_Matarife> Yeah that's great and all for running a machine
17:58 < kanzure> i think it has some mesh->gcode software too?
17:58 < El_Matarife> But not making the G-code to run a machine
17:58 < kanzure> you sure?
17:58 < El_Matarife> Yeah there's a few open source solutions but the closed proprietary market is really still ahead
17:58 < kanzure> hm.. i need to get an skdb package going for 80-20
17:59 < randallagordon> 80-20? T-slot?
17:59  * kanzure nods
17:59 < kanzure> that's what cubespawn is done out of
18:00 < randallagordon> Right...I need to look more closely at cubespawn
18:00 < El_Matarife> That's good stuff
18:00 < El_Matarife> we're using it for our machine
18:00 < El_Matarife> And I saw some videos of an SUV sitting on some
18:00 < kanzure> http://cubespawn.com/
18:02 < El_Matarife> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztDoZ4VMhpA
18:02 < El_Matarife> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQMcPijGnnA
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18:05 < randallagordon> hah, nice
18:06 < El_Matarife> I'm 99% sure you could build a shed with the stuff
18:06 < randallagordon> Shouldn't be difficult...just spendy :)
18:07 < El_Matarife> You'd be surprised how cheap it is
18:07 < El_Matarife> Especially when they have refurb sales on eBay
18:07 < randallagordon> Compared to 2x4s?
18:07 < El_Matarife> Well, no because 2x4s cost roughly what a big mac costs each :P
18:07 < randallagordon> ...salvage is another story, I suppose
18:07 < randallagordon> Or, my favorite, cider blocks and PVC
18:08 < El_Matarife> I was at my Home Depot the other day and they had 2x4s for like $3.64 each on 8 or 10 foot lengths
18:08 < El_Matarife> You can't buy LUNCH for that these days
18:08 < randallagordon> Hrmmm...8' here is like $1.88 last I checked, but that was over the summer
18:08 < randallagordon> ...and grade makes a huge difference
18:08 < El_Matarife> Yeah I meant its crazy cheap
18:08 < randallagordon> lumber prices are insanely unstable :)
18:09 < El_Matarife> Also reminds me of a joke during this workshop I went to, someone was up front giving a presentation about how to reorder the cuts in back and some wise ass said "But MDF doesn't have grain" and the hobbyist half of the room DIED laughing
18:09 < kanzure> there hasn't been a good hurricane in a while
18:09 < kanzure> so lumber is cheap for now
18:09 < El_Matarife> Thank god, if you've ever done hurricane cleanup
18:10 < El_Matarife> My partner has grandparents in Jasper TX, he went down to help out after a hurricane and he describes it as one of the worst experiences of his life
18:13 < El_Matarife> Also, another cool thing I heard recently
18:13 < El_Matarife> I went to the woodworking show and one of our local guys has been talking to a sales rep for a Chinese laser manufacturer
18:13 < randallagordon> Are there any mature OS inkjet printer projects that anyone is aware of? Like, say, a MechMate attachment? Everything I'm searching for leads me to POSAM, which, is badass in its own right, but...not what I'm looking for :P
18:14 < El_Matarife> He thinks they could sell industrial lasers in the 45 watt range for $800 to retrofit your existing gantry machines
18:14 < El_Matarife> I told them to sign me up and I'd be the first customer
18:14 < El_Matarife> I don't know about printer heads for a gantry, but you CAN do a plotter bit for your router / spindle
18:15 < randallagordon> The other piece of equipment we're looking at is a Roland SOLJET: http://rolanddga.com/products/printcut/xc540MT/
18:15 < El_Matarife> http://www.widgetworksunlimited.com/CNC_Plotter_Pen_Bit_p/cnc-pltr_pen_thin.htm
18:15 < randallagordon> I'd love to have 5-axis control of a print head, though...direct print to damn near anything...yummy
18:16 < El_Matarife> Yeah that's pretty nice
18:16 < El_Matarife> I'm hoping someone designs and makes a nice articulated arm for existing gantry machines
18:17 < El_Matarife> The way I look at it, design something open source style, ship it off to China for cheap manufacturing and sell a bulk order of like a container full for like $1000ish a pop to everyone with an existing machine
18:18 < El_Matarife> But there's kind of a chicken and egg effect, there isn't much 5 axis software for the hobbyist market thus far, but that's because there's no hobbyist level 5 axis gear
18:18 < randallagordon> I'm game to write the code
18:18 < El_Matarife> And no one wants to make a hobbyist level 5 axis machine cause there's no software for it
18:18 < randallagordon> I just need cashflow...hence, initial investment in mature equipment to procure said cashflow
18:18 < El_Matarife> I assume you could just fit an airbrush with a really small diameter head to a gantry machine as well
18:19 < randallagordon> Then I'm freed up to do create the tools I need, but don't have
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18:19 < kanzure> hey Aliks 
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18:19 < randallagordon> I'm psychotic enough to crack open a $40k printer and retrofit it ;)
18:19 < kanzure> bah
18:20 < randallagordon> Well Aliks didn't stay long, heh
18:20 < randallagordon> kanzure, bah?
18:22 < kanzure> randallagordon: at aliks leaving
18:22 < randallagordon> oh...hah, somehow I thought El_Matarife had said hey to Aliks
18:22  * randallagordon has a broken brain
18:22 < El_Matarife> Nope
18:22 < El_Matarife> Randall, where are you located exactly
18:24 < kanzure> fenn: doesn't emc do 5-axis?
18:25 < randallagordon> exactly...44.48678, -122.86679
18:26 < randallagordon> at somewhere around 200' altitude... ;)
18:26 < randallagordon> Sodaville/Lebanon, Oregon for those who don't want to whip out a mapping tool
18:27 < kanzure> i keep on thinking you're in lebanon proper
18:27 < kanzure> so i've spaced you away in the "located in weird ass locations"
18:27 < kanzure> er *weird ass locations category
18:27 < randallagordon> heh, well, my address is Lebanon, 97355
18:28 < randallagordon> Sodaville is less than a town nowadays *tear*
18:28 < kanzure> (the country)
18:28 < randallagordon> Oh, lol
18:28 < randallagordon> No...not that Lebanon
18:28 < El_Matarife> I have no clue where those are
18:28 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanon
18:28 < randallagordon> If you know where Corvallis is, the home of OSU, then you're close enough
18:28 < randallagordon> I'm on the other side of the valley, half an hour away
18:30 < fenn> yes emc does up to 9 axes, but objects can only move in 6 DOF in physical space anyway, so..
18:30 < fenn> actually you can change MAX_AXES to whatever, in the code
18:32 < kanzure> jerry rutherford has a full machine shop up in missouri that he wants me to go get wit him later this month
18:33 < kanzure> *with
18:33 < kanzure> fenn: martin has a low opinion of emc, when he's in person
18:33 < kanzure> dunno
18:34 < kanzure> apparently he had a bad experience once and had to throw on a lot of optical encoders to get any good performance out of it
18:40 < kanzure> can't get this song out of my head http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvMmlLlF7mA
18:55 < randallagordon> Not bad
18:56 < randallagordon> Although the chosen illustration immediately made me think of One Week..."Gotta get in tune with Sailor Moon, cuz that cartoon's got those boom anime babes, that make me think the wrong thing."
18:59 < kanzure> it's true, i'm an anime freak. hell even my dad knew the sailor moon theme.
18:59 < randallagordon> This would be one of the tracks I can't get out of my head: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXBdibTNy08
18:59 < randallagordon> I dig anime, too, don't get me wrong :)
19:00 < randallagordon> Just trigged that thought...I've had Barenaked Ladies on the mind lately (take that as you will)
19:00 < kanzure> http://designfiles.org/~bryan/music/anime
19:00 < randallagordon> Nice
19:00 < kanzure> see parent directory too to further invade my privacy (i kid, i kid)
19:01 < randallagordon> I need to bolster my j-pop and chiptunes libraries...finally got control vinyl to use with my Technics and Traktor...would be fun to spin chiptunes :D
19:01  * randallagordon invades
19:02 < randallagordon> What? The .hack//SIGN theme isn't on your list? :P
19:02  * randallagordon can't remember the name of it or the name of the artist off the top of his head...Seesaw?
19:02 < kanzure> seesaw was the name of the theme to one of the later gundam animes
19:03 < kanzure> oh that was the band
19:03 < kanzure> okay maybe it's the same band
19:04 < randallagordon> Yeah, they're quite popular
19:04 < randallagordon> And have made music for several series
19:05  * randallagordon is scouring his library...one sec
19:05 < randallagordon> Actually, Seesaw has several songs that are used in .hack
19:08 < randallagordon> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8oC-gewurY
19:09 < randallagordon> That's a horrible capture...but...'tis Youtube, what can you expect?
19:10 < randallagordon> Sounds like there's some clipping in the recording :/
19:12 < randallagordon> ...X10 is the ultimate love/hate relationship...ugh
19:12  * randallagordon throws things at his X10 controller
19:14  * randallagordon needs to find a CM11A and forget about it
19:18 < fenn> El_Matarife: there's some open source CAM here but no 5-axis afaik: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Cam
19:19 < fenn> doesn't mean a 5 axis machine is useless though
19:19 < fenn> oh.. i think APT might do 5 axis actually
19:20 < fenn> kanzure: "had to throw on a lot of optical encoders" doesn't make sense
19:20 < fenn> was he doing lathe threading?
19:24 < randallagordon> Hah, I must build one...I've got all the parts laying about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z86V_ICUCD4
19:24 < randallagordon> (I'd guess most of us in here have the parts laying about...)
19:24 < kanzure> fenn: yes he was making threads
19:25 < fenn> ah. he just had unrealistic expectations then
19:25 < fenn> i mean that literally
19:25 < fenn> turbocnc lets you turn threads with a 1 pulse/rev encoder, which just doesn't work so well
19:26 < kanzure> it sounded like he was doing more than 1 pulse/rev
19:26 < fenn> you can do it in emc but it's discouraged so it takes some effort to set up (i.e. not a pre-configured option)
19:26 < fenn> then i dunno what the problem was
19:26 < kanzure> anyway it's worth asking him i guess
19:26 < kanzure> but i don't know if he will ever come back in here. i think he hates me.
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19:33 < fenn> my grandma was watching c-span and rob carlson was on there, along with dean kamen and some other big names
19:33 < kanzure> your grandma spotted rob carlson by face?
19:34 < kanzure> that's one hot ma
19:34 < fenn> no, she just thought it was interesting and wrote down the names
19:35 < randallagordon> "With the VersaUV, you can print a single membrane panel or several." Okay, I want one: http://www.rolanddga.com/products/printcut/lec300/features.asp
19:35 < kanzure> fenn: still, that's pretty cool :) give her a cookie
19:36 < randallagordon> If I get one, membrane panels for channel members, at cost! ;)
19:37 -!- klord [n=klord@70.114.211.130] has quit []
19:39 < randallagordon> I'm actually trying to get on a list of atendees for a workshop that Roland is putting on for that thing at a local sign materials & equipment supplier...its ability to print textures is highly intriguing, I wan to see it in action
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19:45 -!- Exitil [n=a@76-14-163-117.wsac.wavecable.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
19:45 < kanzure> hello Exitil 
19:46 -!- aliks3 [n=epicurea@76-14-163-117.wsac.wavecable.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
19:46 < kanzure> aliks3: do you know exitil?
19:46 < kanzure> he seems to have your IP address
19:48 < Exitil> lol
19:49 < Exitil> I guess I have both computers signed on
19:49 < Exitil> this is my netbook
19:49 < Exitil> Aliks is my larger laptop
19:50 < kanzure> you can share an IRC session across multiple computers
19:50 < kanzure> use 'screen'
19:52 < Exitil> i dont understand "screen"
19:52  * randallagordon needs to get another box built so he doesn't have to virtualize his Linux experience...then 'screen' will be highly useful
19:54 < kanzure> Exitil: it's a program
19:54 < randallagordon> it multiplexes your terminal experience
19:54 < kanzure> was before the time of the internet i think.. or they just decided to name it 'screen' because they're masochists?
19:55 < Exitil> sounds like speaking broken english lol
19:55 < Exitil> "use screen!"  "no no, you must use screen!"
19:55 < Exitil> (in Russian accent)
19:56 < kanzure> everything is better with a russian accent
19:56 < randallagordon> lol
19:57 < randallagordon> "in Mother Russia, screen wears you!"
19:58 < kanzure> oh crap, i'm being multiplexed!
20:05 < randallagordon> mmm, multiplextacular
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20:16 < Exitil> Russian women man...
20:35 < randallagordon> Wow...that's an interesting statement when read as "Russian woman man..."
21:04 -!- genehacker [n=noko@pool-173-57-48-104.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
21:04 < genehacker> hackerspace meeting status?
21:06 < kanzure> went great
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21:15 < kanzure> jerry's milling machine http://www.youngengsales.com/Index550.jpg
21:16 < QuantumG> "Note that the concept of unwinding has been successfully employed in the case of smectic liquid crystals by confinement within treated glass plates. This surface-stabilized ferroelectric liquid crystal technology (SSFLC) has become the basis for the flat-screen television industry and display screens in cameras."
21:16 < QuantumG> uh.. huh
21:18 < ybit> "Bryan: Anytime I do head out there it should be no big deal to pick you up..."
21:18 < ybit> wow, that guy has a lot of confidence
21:19 < kanzure> i live 0.5mi from the shop so he has a pretty good idea of where i live
21:27 < ybit> it was joke lost in translation
21:37 < kanzure> hm another popular query 
21:37 < kanzure> "floor space required for automated line in clinical lab"
21:40 < QuantumG> I found some warehouse space for $1k/month without really trying today.  That's (painfully) within my budget.  I wonder if there's cheaper places available.  I'm yet to get a feel for whether or not my desirable location (far away from residential zoning) makes the price go up.
21:41 < QuantumG> and I'd rather be spending the money on hardware.. so I won't be interested until I run out of free space to make lots of noise.. or some other justification comes along.
21:45  * randallagordon enjoys living in the country where he can make as much noise as he likes...
21:45 < QuantumG> how far away is your closest neighbor?
21:46 < randallagordon> fairly close...like 1000'...but he's a machinest and doesn't give a damn, so long as it isn't 3am ;)
21:47 < QuantumG> my wife's grandparents have a farm
21:47 < QuantumG> I intend to hit them up for space
21:47 < randallagordon> Nice
21:47 < QuantumG> their neighbor builds helicopters
21:47 < QuantumG> .. so I'll be having a chat with him too :)
21:48 < randallagordon> very nice :)
21:48 < randallagordon> Where are you located? I'm out in Oregon
21:48 < QuantumG> I'm in Australia.
21:48 < QuantumG> Brisbane.
21:48 < randallagordon> Oh yeah, that's right
21:51 < QuantumG> and yeah, it's not just noise.. it's also safety.
22:31  * bkero watches firefly
22:32 < bkero> Oregon is the place to be.
22:32  * bkero drove through lebanon today
22:36 < Trooem> anybody in California?
22:38 -!- elmom [n=elmom@hoasnet-fe29dd00-137.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
22:39 < kanzure> Trooem: yes
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23:19 < QuantumG> http://designfiles.org/papers/Sonoluminescence%20as%20quantum%20vacuum%20radiation.pdf
23:20 < QuantumG> http://designfiles.org/papers/A%20magneto-electric%20quantum%20wheel.pdf
23:20 < QuantumG> I wonder if a link could be made
23:22 < QuantumG> say, what happens if you use a magnetoelectric gas to do sonoluminescence?
23:22 < Trooem> kanzure, you moved to Cali?!
23:23 < Trooem> oh nvm
23:45  * Trooem is doing alright.