--- Log opened Tue Feb 15 00:00:10 2011
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03:40 < kanzure> Technicus: just tell us what actual problems you're having
03:43 < kanzure> open source hardware on bbc radio this morning http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/outriders/2011/02/histories_stories_and_current.shtml
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11:54 < kanzure> http://gephi.org/ is down :(
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13:23 < kanzure> (02:45:48 PM) Matt Campbell:  you owe me big time
13:23 < kanzure> uh oh.
13:24 < kanzure> well i guess it's true in general
13:24 < kanzure> but he's probably talking about something bad that happened
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14:04 < Tyrant> Anyone going to be at BIL in march?
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14:12 < kanzure> Tyrant: i might give a presentation
14:12 < Tyrant> cool
14:12 < Tyrant> socal diybio has like 2 or 3 presenting
14:15 < kanzure> i have trouble picking topics. gada prize or hardware packaging? manufacturing or nanoengineer. etc.
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14:24 < kanzure> http://futurisms.thenewatlantis.com/2011/02/celebrating-self-mutilation.html
14:24 < kanzure> heh "euphemisms"
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14:27 < kanzure> some logos http://dangerousprototypes.com/2011/02/13/open-source-hardware-logo/
14:27 < kanzure> #2 is nice
14:27 < kanzure> http://www.openhardwaresummit.org/logo/oh-2-100.png
14:28 < kanzure> lots of replies here: http://www.openhardwaresummit.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=393&sid=6adec134fa64cc0ee5825339495c9b51
14:29 < kanzure> http://www.openhardwaresummit.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=611#p611
14:30 < kanzure> http://www.openhardwaresummit.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=623#p623
14:30 < kanzure> http://www.openhardwaresummit.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=628#p628
14:31 < kanzure> http://www.openhardwaresummit.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=665#p665
14:31 < kanzure> more comments.. :/ http://www.openhardwaresummit.org/oshw-logo-v1-0/
14:32 < QuantumG> how do you make a logo that encapsulates the "barely works, virtually no-one contributes back" nature of open hardware?
14:32 < kanzure> how about a logo that says "everyone is here for social media wankery and doesn't actually have hardware skills"
14:33 < splicer> The padlock is a very nice idea
14:34 < splicer> I made a biopunk logo a few days back: http://biopunk.hu/
14:34 < QuantumG> I was talking to a guy who was putting together a quad copter the other month.. I'm like "so when are you putting a log of your experiences up?" and he started going on about all the other blogs that have already done that..
14:35 < kanzure> yeah.. i saw it on the 12th splicer
14:35 < kanzure> http://www.biopunk.org/the-biopunk-biogear-logo-t596.html
14:35 < QuantumG> 1. if he thought his experiences were going to be exactly the same as everyone else's, why bother?
14:35 < splicer> yepp
14:35 < kanzure> QuantumG: yeah.. i'd have to agree though, putting up yet-another-blog doesn't help as much as i.e. debian packaging
14:36 < QuantumG> 2. last week he had a fatal flight and blew up a LiOH battery and nearly caused a fire.. he still hasn't posted anything on the experience.
14:36 < uniqanomaly__> "it’s sad, if not at all surprising, to find transhumanists not only lacking the faculties to evaluate self-mutilation as the self-destructive behavior of a person in need of help, but encouraging it — both by reporting on it so enthusiastically, and by fostering a subculture in which it could be understood as a laudable act of creation and self-expression." what the f*ck
14:37 < kanzure> uniqanomaly__: what are you wtfing?
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14:37 < uniqanomaly__> kanzure: celebrating celf-mutiation
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14:37 < QuantumG> self-improvement is masturbation.. now self-destruction..
14:37 < uniqanomaly__> retards
14:37 < kanzure> i know, but what's so what the fuck about it?
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14:37 < kanzure> uniqanomaly__: check it out: ... "i have been known to slice my arms open for shits'n'giggles, sure, and do a fair amount of damage in the process (none of this emo cat-scratch bullshit, i've split my arm to the tendons like the little psychopath i sort of am), but this is not something i do when properly medicated. i need a better way of communicating that."
14:37 < kanzure> uniqanomaly__: that's self-mutiliation. period.
14:37 < uniqanomaly__> their semi-logic
14:38 < uniqanomaly__> yeah because it's like you can go ask any physician to implant something in your finger
14:40 < uniqanomaly__> of course it wouldn't be any mutilation if he would do this
14:40 < kanzure> implanting stuff in your finger isn't the same thing as self-mutiliation
14:40 < kanzure> i think you're confused
14:42 < Director_X> how about cosmetic mods?
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14:43 < Director_X> as soon as they make a cybernetic limb that works just as well as the biological ones....
14:43 < Director_X> i'm cutting off my limbs
14:44 < uniqanomaly__> i wan't a tail
14:44 < uniqanomaly__> want
14:44 < uniqanomaly__> lul
14:44 < uniqanomaly__> like 1.5m tail
14:44 < uniqanomaly__> ;D
14:44 < Director_X> sign me up for that too
14:45 < Director_X> goat legs would be nice too
14:45 < Director_X> robot goat legs
14:46 < ThomasEgi> uniqanomaly__, grow some bones, and muscles, tissue engineer them to a tail, grow skin over it. your spine still has a few nerves left from the biological tail. altho your brain may have a hard time to learn how to use them properly.
14:48 < Director_X> and you risk a 25% chance of getting cancer
14:50 < ThomasEgi> why?
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14:51 < ThomasEgi> if you just cultivate your already existing cells?
14:51 < Director_X> hell if I know
14:51 < Director_X> I wanted an extra finger, and this was the objection
14:52 < Director_X> whats up Lukas?
14:52 < Director_X> Lukas probably knows
14:53 < Lukas___> Hello
14:53 < Lukas___> can't stay for long, class soon (facepalm)
14:53 < Lukas___> what's up?
14:53 < Director_X> talking about adding extra appendages
14:54 < Lukas___> stem cells FTW
14:54 < Lukas___> :P
14:54 < Director_X> 25% cancer rate?
14:54 < Lukas___> to be honest, I am not entire sure how you could do that without accidently causing cancer
14:54 < Lukas___> there are some growth hormones that can be used, but to the same result as far as I know
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14:56 < Director_X> damn cancer.  why don't one you guys go ahead and find a cure for that real quick so I can get some extra digits
14:56 < Director_X> and a tail
15:00 < Director_X> fix that second law of thermodynamics too
15:01  * drazak bugs kanzure 
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15:04 < ThomasEgi> Director_X, fixing that law is quite funny. one of my hobbies. my best try resulted in a 2 week long discussion amongst an entire physics-class at a university. their discussion ended with no real result.
15:05 < Director_X> lol.  sounds like my photonic conversations.
15:06 < ThomasEgi> at least i made some 150 brains smoke  :P
15:07 < ThomasEgi> altho the device would be quite buildable. in case it really would've worked. the effect would me so tiny that it'D be of no pratical use.
15:07 < ThomasEgi> was quite fun tho.
15:07 < Director_X> sweet.  any hint to the nature of the device?
15:11 < ThomasEgi> brownian movement, magnetic particles a few µm in size, a coil, thermal insulation, a resistor.
15:11 < ThomasEgi> and a few drops of water.
15:12 < ThomasEgi> pretty much the best approach i had so far. dunno if it really would've worked.
15:13 < ThomasEgi> if someone has a lab which is capable of producing microstructures i'd love to give it a try
15:14 < Tyrant> kanzure, i bet you love the trailer on the website of transcendant man
15:14 < Tyrant> its so visionary so predictive so... narcissistic :D
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15:18 < Director_X> sounds cool
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15:34 < jebba> timschmidt, cool, re: cgal  bits  :)
15:34 < timschmidt> :)
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17:49 < JayDugger> Good evening, everyone.
18:01 < Jappe2> yes
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18:07 < delinquentme>  /join #arduino
18:10 < Jappe2> no advertising plz
18:13 < delinquentme> anyone know of any sweet ideas for liquid handling ?? i've looked into the bioTek type compression spindle and simple syringes .. anyone have anything better ??
18:13 < QuantumG> bottles seem pretty effective.
18:17 < delinquentme> lol
18:18 < delinquentme> QuantumG, this is true
18:18 < delinquentme> i never realized it .. but i think thats what TECAN uses!
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18:49 < JayDugger> I prefer pipes to bottles.
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18:52 < delinquentme> JayDugger, im w you ... i cant decide between the  ...  http://88proof.com/synthetic_biology/blog/archives/461
18:52 < delinquentme> or just mounting plastic syringes and a screw / bearing drive to suction / expel from the syringes :D
18:53 < delinquentme> VOTE!
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19:58 < kanzure> drazak: i wasn't actually here tonight, so bugging me didn't count
19:58 < kanzure> (although you could have tried phone)
19:59 < kanzure> Tyrant: no, i don't like 'transcendant man'
19:59 < kanzure> delinquentme: how about microfluidic reservoires instead?
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20:00 < drazak> kanzure: I'm not a huge fan of phoning people just to bug them
20:00 < delinquentme> kanzure, i was actually LOVING the fact that you can use microfluidic pressures as built in valves
20:00 < delinquentme> but im not sure if thats what im after .. i think im going with the less flashy stepper driven syringes
20:00 < kanzure> "syringe pumps"
20:01 < kanzure> are ridiculously expensive.. i don't remember any particular reason they have to be other than "that's what the market pays"
20:01 < delinquentme> http://www.microdialysis.se/public/file.php?REF=48ab2f9b45957ab574cf005eb8a76760&art=614&FILE_ID=20080226095207_1_2.pdf
20:01 < delinquentme> yeah right!
20:01 < delinquentme> look at that thing
20:01 < delinquentme> its got buttons and shit .. all i need is a console and an arduino
20:01 < delinquentme> and my damn ruby controller to work
20:02 < kanzure> why do you have to program your controller in ruby
20:03 < delinquentme> kanzure, my partner in crime is thinking python
20:03 < delinquentme> im just trying to learn along w this project
20:04 < delinquentme> honestly im just pissed at the footwork im doing ,
20:04 < kanzure> what is the actual project
20:04 < delinquentme> ive already got a rails app > telnet > router > arduino > stepper control going
20:04 < delinquentme> CURRENTLY id just like to get precision step control over the motor via a rails app
20:05 < delinquentme> currently im using char type vars .. which lead to weird ascii interpretations
20:05 < kanzure> so wait.. why are you using rails to directly control a stepper?
20:05 < kanzure> how about using a stepper controller instead
20:05 < delinquentme> im unsure if i can send strict integers
20:05 < kanzure> rails is for webapps
20:05 < delinquentme> correct
20:06 < kanzure> not for interfacing hardware.. you should write a daemon or use one and then interface rails to that..
20:06 < delinquentme> well when you say stepper controller wouldn't that be an arduino in this case?
20:06 < kanzure> lemme guess. you're sending commands over libhid from rails?
20:06 < delinquentme> i literally have no clue as to whats the best way to go about this .. so im all ears
20:07 < delinquentme> nah telnet
20:07 < delinquentme> rails app > telnet > router > arduino > stepper control going
20:07 < delinquentme> the serial pick up strings sent over telnet and uses those as input for the stepper
20:07 < kanzure> so again, what are you using this for specifically?
20:08 < kanzure> just learning, or is your stepper doing something
20:08 < delinquentme> well the grand vision is id like to see a local server running as what i call a "conductor"
20:08 < kanzure> that means nothing to me
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20:09 < delinquentme> so the conductor controls a bunch of arduinos
20:09 < delinquentme> arduinos hooked up to thinks like liquid handling pieces
20:09 < kanzure> what do the "liquid handling pieces" actually do
20:09 < delinquentme> microscopy adjustments
20:09 < delinquentme> suck up water .. place them in some container .. possibly microplates
20:10 < delinquentme> or fix them up some way to do automatic slide prep
20:10 < delinquentme> miniprep > pcr > gel electro would be awesome
20:10 < delinquentme> but thats still a bit out
20:10 < kanzure> okay. so you want all of your lab equipment on /dev/ basically
20:11 < delinquentme> /dev/
20:11 < delinquentme> ^^??
20:11 < kanzure> are you a linux user
20:11 < delinquentme> yeah
20:11 < kanzure> ...
20:11 < delinquentme> ubuntu
20:11 < kanzure> well anyway, i'm going to ignore that comment
20:11 < delinquentme> sure
20:11 < kanzure> i recommend you write some non-rails-related server for conducting that lab/computer setup
20:11 < delinquentme> automation of processes
20:12 < kanzure> there's no particular reason to make it rails-specific
20:12 < delinquentme> you're talking C++
20:12 < kanzure> and it just burdens the architecture
20:12 < kanzure> no i'm not talking c++
20:12 < kanzure> if you like ruby so much, do it in ruby
20:12 < kanzure> but depending on rails seems pointless
20:13 < delinquentme> so conductor interfaces with arduinos
20:13 < delinquentme> same setup .. what protocol between them though
20:13 < delinquentme> stright up tcp was another suggestion
20:14 < delinquentme> or i guess ruby supports serial port
20:14 < kanzure> i would write a protocol that works on top of serial/tcp/usb and then you shouldn't care which one is used
20:15 < delinquentme> hmmm
20:15 < delinquentme> damn im really feeling clueless right now
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20:17 < delinquentme> kanzure, ok so that sounds like a good idea .. where do i even start learning how to write protocols which are "on top of" serial tcp usb
20:18 < delinquentme> im not sure if i could tell a good idea from a bad one right now but ...
20:21 < kanzure> you figure out what you need to send to each device
20:21 < kanzure> ite those details down
20:21 < kanzure> *write those details down
20:22 < kanzure> then write a few methods: one to translate it to something that can be sent over serial, one for over usb, whatever
20:22 < kanzure> in many cases there won't be much of a difference..
20:22 < delinquentme> ok i think i can work w that
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21:10 < ybit> http://heath.blip.tv/file/4772416/
21:10 < ybit> recordmydesktop :\
21:10 < ybit> would be nice to use this as opposed to vlc + audacity
21:11 < ybit> also... does anyone know someone willing to review a guy's paper in #neuroscience?
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--- Log closed Wed Feb 16 00:00:10 2011