--- Log opened Tue Jan 29 00:00:13 2013
--- Day changed Tue Jan 29 2013
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00:20 < kanzure> eleitl: know anyone at the German Organ Transplantation Foundation?
00:20 < kanzure> or eurotransplant
00:21 < kanzure> i've been thinking that europe might be sufficiently dense to make a bitcoin-based organ selling operation actually work
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00:30 < brownies> can you people 3d print organs yet?
00:30 < kanzure> we can 3d print vascularized tissue, somewhat.
00:30 < kanzure> organs are for quitters, real men just steal other people's organs for profit
00:31 < kanzure> i haven't been able to figure out if livers based on a plastic scaffold are going to appear first or if fully printed livers will happen first
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00:31 < brownies> what's the difference?
00:32 < brownies> is a plastic scaffold liver usable as a regular liver?
00:32 < kanzure> nobody knows yet
00:32 < kanzure> or, i mean, nobody has tested a plastic scaffold liver yet because the cells don't live that long in vitro
00:33 < kanzure> s/vitro/vivo
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00:34 < kanzure> i expect that the first tests will either be animal implantation or organ perfusion chambers designed to mimic the environment inside the human body
00:36 < brownies> right
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01:07 < kanzure> actually, that might be an interesting test. if a fake organ performs just as well as a real organ inside such a chamber, then you shouldn't be able to tell from measurements in a blind study.
01:24 < kanzure> oh hm. blue brain got $1 billion, not $500 million?
01:25 < kanzure> "Further funding will depend on whether they reach certain milestones within the first 30 months, but over a decade it could total €1 billion ($1.34 million) each."
01:25 < kanzure> million?
01:26 < joehot> million
01:27 < kanzure> but what happened to billion?
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01:35 < archels> 10^9 euro
01:35 < kanzure> archels: better send in your application now, yo
01:36 < archels> yah I don't really know the process by which this huge sum is going to percolate down to actual research groups
01:36 < kanzure> well, henry will be leading up the attack so i imagine it will be controlled from EPFL
01:37 < kanzure> there are some names attached to the proposal document so check which labs those guys operate (other than just henry's)
01:37 < archels> most likely, but lots of people are going to be looking over his shoulder.
01:37 < archels> my professor is the head of the Human Brain Project in NL, I should probably have a chat with him :)
01:38 < kanzure> ah, i'm glad i have a mole in the human brain project
01:38 < kanzure> you will leak me a brain if the emulation works, right?
01:39 < kanzure> ... right? :(
01:39 < archels> for on the supercomputer in your garage? absolutely
01:39 < archels> can't keep this sort of thing locked up in a cage, that would be immoral
01:40 < kanzure> what do you know about my garage supercomputer
01:40 < kanzure> who told you
01:41 < archels> oh I just assumed based on you being in this channel
01:41 < archels> everyone here has that, right?
01:41 < kanzure> no, a few people in here are shameful enough to just pay for ec2 time
01:42 < archels> making do with homebrew FPGA processors, I could see, but EC2? tsk
01:43 < kanzure> homebrew asics. FPGAs are much harder to make.
01:44 < archels> well, off-the-shelf FPGA hardware, custom firmware.
01:44 < archels> (firmware is probably not the right word)
01:47 < archels> well, companies like Xilinx seem to call it that, but it feels inadequate
02:06 < archels> paperbot: http://jn.physiology.org/content/early/2012/11/02/jn.00648.2012.long
02:06 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/A%20neuro-mechanical%20model%20for%20the%20neural%20basis%20of%20curve%20walking%20in%20the%20stick%20insect.pdf
02:08 < kanzure> "1944 kolff version of the kidney dialysis machine" http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_PB5-El7se4s/SZX0NFK4n1I/AAAAAAAANjw/0H1OzjbU3bA/s1600/kolff+1944+dialysis.jpg
02:13 < kanzure> that doesn't look like the drum i see on http://homedialysis.org/types/museum
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02:29 < kanzure> "The Jarvik - 7 is a device that is still used today and is claimed to have the highest success rate of any mechanical heart or assist device in the world."
02:29 < kanzure> "Since 1982, more than 350 patients have used the Jarvik 7 heart, and it remains in use today - called the CardioWest total artificial heart as Ownership has changed hands several times, but the device design remains essentially unchanged."
02:29 < kanzure> wait.. what? only 350 patients?
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02:36 < kanzure> " SynCardia claims there are more than 1000 implants of the Total Artificial Heart, accounting for more than 270 patient years of life on this device"
02:37 < kanzure> "According to SynCardia, the longest a patient has been supported with the Total Artificial Heart is 1,374 days (nearly four years) before he received a successful heart transplant."
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03:20  * archels wonders if he should use the term 'cybernetics' in communication with srsbiz neuroscientists
03:21 < kanzure> if you want, we could "peer review" your email before you send it
03:22 < kanzure> we could peer review all over it.
03:24 < archels> O_o
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03:30 < brownies> i... uh... don't think that's how you use that word
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04:17 < kanzure> brownies: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=peer+review
04:18 < kanzure> "Man, I had to have my essay peer reviewed today and that fucker wrote on my paper that I have a strong thesis"
04:21 < kanzure> brownies: i seem to be having some caching problems, can you tell me what numbers you see under the calendar? https://github.com/kanzure
04:21 < kanzure> and/or what words are spelled out on the calendar
04:28 < Coornail> almost an 'E'
04:32 < eudoxia> ^
04:34 < kanzure> bonus points to anyone who can figure out what i was trying to write.
04:34 < kanzure> this deal expires the moment it starts rendering correctly on github.
04:36 < eudoxia> h+?
04:36 < kanzure> -_-
04:36 < eudoxia> a k?
04:37 < kanzure> eudoxia: hint, try looking at the data to figure it out.
04:38 < kanzure> instead of embarrassing yourself :)
04:43 < kanzure> eudoxia: this might help save you a few minutes of coding https://github.com/kanzure/streak/blob/teapot/streak.py
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06:33 < eleitl> fuck this rocket surgery shit
06:33 < eudoxia> ?
06:33 < eleitl> trying to reimport vmware guests from an nfs
06:33 < eleitl> share
06:34 < eleitl> vmware going fully amnesiac retard on me
06:34 < eleitl> and of course windows wants to be activated, natch
06:35 < juri_> ok. wow.
06:35 < juri_> done with my crazy EMR project.
06:36 < eleitl> describe it, so that we can celebrate, too
06:36 < juri_> 20,000 lines of patch.
06:36 < eleitl> open source?
06:37 < juri_> we added credentialing, emergency form filing, unassigned appointment filing, made the system no longer pop up any windows..
06:37 < juri_> of course.
06:37 < juri_> OpenEMR.
06:37 < juri_> https://gitorious.org/~elishy/openemr/elishys-openemr
06:37 < juri_> master on that tree is 15,000 lines different from mainline.
06:38 < eleitl> Congratulations!
06:38 < eleitl> How long did it take?
06:38 < juri_> added documentation to many pages.. droped other dead pages, removed some standing security risks..
06:38 < juri_> 5 weeks.
06:38 < eleitl> sounds like a lot of work, and it's even in PHP(?)
06:38 < juri_> yepyep.
06:38 < eleitl> you poor bastard...
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06:39 < juri_> a lot of complicated javascript, as well.
06:40 < juri_> my personal favorites are the scheduling changes (schedule an event without deciding who takes it at scheduling time), emergency event logging, and the javascript routine that from one frame (yes, it still uses frames), injects jquery and fancybox into another frame, then uses fancybox in that frame to pop up a dialog.
06:41 < eleitl> does the change have to be certified, to be fit for medical applications?
06:46 < eleitl> this virtual network thing is not a fad
06:47 < juri_> nope.
06:47 < juri_> no certification process.
06:47 < eleitl> that sounds easy
06:47 < juri_> however, now i need to break it into little pieces, and get it comitted.
06:48 < eleitl> no actual people get hurt?
06:48 < juri_> we've done a good job making the software better here, so it should result in better running medical offices.
06:50 < eleitl> there's a reason medical facilities require certification
06:50 < eleitl> any bug could cause a major regression
06:50 < juri_> the software they run is certified. we just make it better.
06:50 < eleitl> ok, so somebody takes your changes, and tests and certifies that. No problem there.
06:51 < juri_> thats not quite how the certification process works.
06:51 < juri_> our changes will not get a test for certification. the ONC does not require that.
06:51 < eleitl> How does it work?
06:51 < juri_> they require regular baseline certifications of the program as a whole, but that does not effect adding new features, or closing security bugs.
06:52 < eleitl> No idea how things are done down here.
06:52 < eleitl> we're actually going to do medicine in our group, it's just our clients won't be able to complain
06:53 < eleitl> nobody in the dewar has sued anyone for malpractice, yet
06:53 < eleitl> which, of course, doesn't absolve one from the need to do things properly
06:54 < juri_> OpenEMR has been certified for use up here, and is used all over the place. it serves as a good baseline.
06:55 < juri_> I'm glad to have this project done. i've already got an image recognition project to complete for a banking company in the pipeline...
06:55 < eleitl> who's paying for your work?
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08:35 < juri_> elitl: i'm subcontracting, so i don't know the 'actual' customer.
08:37 < eleitl> But you do get paid, it's not volunteer work?
08:45 < juri_> its a little bit from category A, a lot from category B. i got paid for 1 week of work, but worked 5, to do a good job of it.
09:08 < brownies> kanzure: haha
09:08 < brownies> kanzure: still see 4780 days there
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09:12 < archels> Telomerase Reverse Transcriptase Synergizes with Calorie Restriction to Increase Health Span and Extend Mouse Longevity
09:12 < archels> paperbot: http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0053760
09:12 < paperbot> error: HTTP 500 http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Telomerase%20Reverse%20Transcriptase%20Synergizes%20with%20Calorie%20Restriction%20to%20Increase%20Health%20Span%20and%20Extend%20Mouse%20Longevity.pdf
09:16 < nmz787> chris_99: hi
09:20 < chris_99> hey, oh the other day i was gonna ask if you'd noticed any longish image sensors around 8cm on your travels, but managed to find one on Mouser for £30
09:20 < chris_99> :)
09:26 < archels> Are there any efforts underway to just breed mice for longevity, and see how far you can go?
09:27 < nmz787> ahh, the long one
09:27 < nmz787> ahh the long one's I've seen come out of flatbed scanners, chris_99
09:28 < chris_99> yeah the problem is i think they're hard to get hold of
09:28 < chris_99> i contacted a company about that and they where charging $100
09:28 < chris_99> for a CIS one
09:28 < chris_99> not even a CCD one
09:53 < nmz787> huh, I think I've seen then for around $30 or $40 USD
09:53 < nmz787> chris_99: http://www.toshiba.com/taec/Catalog/Line.do?lineid=900041&familyid=900039
09:54 < chris_99> i couldn't seem to find the sensor lengths on that page, or am i being very dumb
09:56 < chris_99> also is there a mainstream site like Mouser/Farnell/Digisomething that sells them
09:56 < nmz787> chris_99: $14 but only 5.5cm http://www.eureca.de/pdf/optoelectronic/sony/ILX553A.PDF
09:57 < nmz787> that's a commonly used one
09:57 < chris_99> http://uk.mouser.com/ProductDetail/ams/TSL208R/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMunxn%2f4XiYBQjMStQ7%2faj6jpnSvRJ2RwP0%3d is what i found
09:57 < chris_99> ~8.8cm
09:57 < nmz787> no but you can get a feel based on pixel size and num pixels
09:58 < chris_99> true
09:58 < chris_99> i couldn't seem to find anyone that sold the toshiba ones really though
09:58 < nmz787> is that high enough DPI, sensitivity, etc?
09:59 < chris_99> yeah plenty high enough DPI
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09:59 < nmz787> because the TAOS chips are gonna be a lot easier to work with than a CCD like the toshiba or sonys i linked to
10:00 < chris_99> mm
10:01 < chris_99> i'm planning on sticking a light on top of the hydrometer now and using that to pick it up
10:01 < nmz787> to sense the level?
10:01 < chris_99> yup
10:09 < archels> there has to be an easier way to make a level sensor
10:09 < chris_99> any other sensors that could be used?
10:10 < archels> what are your requirements?
10:10 < archels> there are quite a few ways to measure fluid level, most of them simpler than using a CCD strip
10:11 < chris_99> it's to measure specific gravity
10:11 < chris_99> from a hydrometer
10:11 < chris_99> not just a fluid level per se
10:12 < archels> so there's a float, the one-dimensional position of which has to be measured
10:12 < chris_99> mm
10:12 < archels> is there any need for isolation because of the chemicals involved?
10:12 < chris_99> nope
10:12 < chris_99> just beer :)
10:13 < archels> the easiest approach would be to attach the float to a potentiometer
10:13 < chris_99> ThomasEgi mentioned that
10:13 < chris_99> there isn't enough force from the hydrometer
10:13 < chris_99> for that to work though
10:15 < archels> well, you have to make a lever. If the force is small, make the pot only rotate a few degrees
10:15 < archels> and/or get a better pot
10:16 < archels> otherwise, you can make a simple linear optical encoder from an old inkjet printer
10:16 < chris_99> that wouldn't be as precise though as using an imaging sensor
10:17 < archels> well, with an image sensor you need to keep stuff aligned pretty well for it to stay in focus
10:17 < archels> and you need an appropriate light source and optics
10:19 < chris_99> true, i don't think i need any fancy optics though, i was planning on aligning the top of the hydrometer in a tube with the LED pushed up to the sensor
10:20 < nmz787> chris_99: this just uses 2 LEDs http://moab.eecs.wsu.edu/~pedrow/classes/ee415/Fall_2005/Refereed%20Papers/paper1_garnet.pdf
10:20 < nmz787> ahh that's liquid level though, not a stick's level
10:21 < nmz787> have you considered buying a magnet strip and using a hall effect sensor?
10:23 < ThomasEgi> nmz787, hall effects /magnetometers was in discussion.
10:23 < ThomasEgi> personally. i still favor the ac-coil with the magnetic field picked up by other coils.
10:23 < chris_99> nmz787, http://openhydrometer.com/about
10:23 < chris_99> that's the current idea
10:24 < ThomasEgi> hm.. another idea... wolud be to use an optical encoding on the hydrometer
10:25 < chris_99> not precise enough imo
10:25 < nmz787> like reflective patches?
10:25 < nmz787> and just count ticks like the magnet strip?
10:25 < ThomasEgi> chris_99, i wouldnt say that it's not precise enough
10:25 < ThomasEgi> optical encoding can get you μm precision
10:25 < chris_99> well you'd have to make them tiny for it to work
10:25 < chris_99> which would need an image sensor of v. high dpi
10:26 < ThomasEgi> nope. no need for a high dpi sensor :)
10:26 < ThomasEgi> you just have to add a mask in front of it
10:26 < chris_99> huh?
10:26 < chris_99> not heard of that, how's that work
10:26 < ThomasEgi> so you have like.. 2 line patterns
10:26 < ThomasEgi> which shift over each other
10:26 < chris_99> hmm interesting
10:26 < ThomasEgi> resulting in a triangular brightness change
10:27 < ThomasEgi> it's a relative messurement. very precise tho. you need ocassional marks for absolute positioning.
10:27 < nmz787> I think he means something like this, with one or two pixels instead of a camera http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structured-light_3D_scanner
10:27 < ThomasEgi> but those can easily be done with like optical endstops or so
10:27 < ThomasEgi> nmz787, nope.
10:27 < nmz787> and instead of the pattern generated by a projector, it's just printed on the hydrometer?
10:28 < ThomasEgi> nmz787, different principle
10:28 < chris_99> what's the one you're talking about called, ThomasEgi
10:28 < ThomasEgi> i'm searching for the correct name already
10:29 < chris_99> aha cheers
10:29 < archels> oh man you guys are overengineering the hell out of this
10:29 < nmz787> all you need is a flux capacitor chris_99
10:29 < chris_99> haha
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10:31 < nmz787> 3D scanning would work too though ;)
10:31 < nmz787> heh heh
10:32 < chris_99> lol
10:32 < nmz787> so you don't want to use a refractometer because it will get dirty and be hard to clean?
10:32 < nmz787> that seems like it would be cheap, and you'd need less CCD pixels
10:33 < nmz787> you might also be able to do it through the glass
10:33 < chris_99> a couple of reasons, not esp. accurate for beer apparently, and also in-place ones are expensive
10:33 < ThomasEgi> i can't really find the name for it. i'd have to work through my university stuff to find it.
10:33 < chris_99> no worries
10:33 < ThomasEgi> but.. once more. i highly recommend to go with that coil approaches , messuring AC voltage
10:34 < nmz787> i'd just place a red laser on the opposite side of the glass carboy, across from the CCD, then refraction should move the spot up or down the CCD
10:34 < nmz787> i think that might work
10:34 < ThomasEgi> it's rather robust. not depending on optics, so it works in a dirty and wet environment. relatively simple and cheap
10:35 < chris_99> just thinking if i did that ThomasEgi i could use those tiny sealed inductors
10:35 < chris_99> couldnt i
10:36 < ThomasEgi> ... you could if you change the geometric arrangement
10:36 < ThomasEgi> i'd pretty much have one coil inside a set of other coils.
10:36 < ThomasEgi> arranged on one axis
10:36 < chris_99> i was thinking you meant lots of coils on the hydrometer and then a hall effect on the float
10:36 < ThomasEgi> nope.
10:37 < ThomasEgi> you basically wind a thin wire around the hydrometer. and turn it into a coil this way
10:37 < ThomasEgi> then you put a tube, wind wire around it in like 8 sections (they may overlap, just make sure each has the same winding count).
10:37 < ThomasEgi> and you put that over the dryrometer, mounted to the float.
10:39 < ThomasEgi> then you connect a capacitor in series with the hydrometer coil, feed a rectangular signal to it (from a microcontroller) that matches the resonance frequency of the LC circuit
10:39 < ThomasEgi> the rest is just adding a few diodes to rectify each of the float-coils outputs , buffer that with a small capacitor, maybe voltage divide down to to a save microcontroller-voltage level. and ADC your results
10:40 < ThomasEgi> will result in like 8 adc results, building the weighted average you can easily calculate the position of your float.
10:40 < chris_99> very interesting, so the hydrometer becomes an electromagnet right and you're sensing it's position using these 8 coils around the cylinder?
10:40 < ThomasEgi> exactly
10:41 < ThomasEgi> and since it is an alternating magnetic field. you can pick the signal up with simple and cheap coils, instead of magnetometers
10:41 < chris_99> and it'll resonate perfectly as it where if its exactly aligned to the coils, and when it moves it'll generate a different signal
10:41 < ThomasEgi> it's dirt cheap, pretty robust, reasonably simple/difficult. and with a bit of tuning i'm pretty sure it'll be accurate enough,too
10:42 < ThomasEgi> the receiver coils won't resonate
10:42 < ThomasEgi> they just pick up the field change and convert it into a voltage for you.
10:42 < chris_99> ok that makes sense
10:43 < chris_99> so it's sort of calculating the difference from a perfect waveform right?
10:43 < ThomasEgi> nope.
10:43 < ThomasEgi> the waveform gets rectified.
10:43 < ThomasEgi> so the result is like a signle analog value for each pickup coil
10:43 < chris_99> oh right
10:44 < ThomasEgi> it'll probably look a bit like a gauss-curve or so , if you draw it with the 8 points
10:44 < ThomasEgi> all you have to do is find the peak-point of that.
10:44 < ThomasEgi> but that's a mathematically simple operation
10:44 < ThomasEgi> even if you have only 8 points. the weighted mean will turn out nicely
10:45 < ThomasEgi> in worst case. you'll have to apply some linearisation-correction at the end of it. but that's easy to do,too.
10:46 < ThomasEgi> the only thing that mihgt be a bit tricky without a scope is to get the resonance frequency set right. but, with some tricks, that's not half as difficult
10:47 < chris_99> i do have a scope actually
10:47 < ThomasEgi> even better then.
10:48 < ThomasEgi> but in yuor case. you could controll the frequency by the μC. and just ramp throught the frequency range once. messuring the voltages on the pickup coils. and then use the frequency where it maxed
10:48 < ThomasEgi> as long as you protect the microcontrollers ADC pins from overvoltage, there's very little that could go wrong
10:49 < ThomasEgi> wrong as is, ruining your day.
10:49 < chris_99> mm sounds a very clever idea
10:50 < ThomasEgi> yeah. the only thing that might be even easier. would be to use a triangulation sensor. given you can find one for the distance you want.
10:50 < ThomasEgi> but then, it's optical again and i have no idea how well that'll work out if there's foam and stuff around
10:50 < ThomasEgi> i'd go with the coils
11:02 < chris_99> this site's got some cool stuff http://www.disensors.com/products.aspx?id=21
11:02 < chris_99> i bet they're not cheap though
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12:02 < hifrog> ~
12:03 < hifrog> paperbot help
12:03 < hifrog> !paperbot
12:03 < hifrog> no?... hmm
12:04 < chris_99> you do paperbot: url i think
12:04 < hifrog> paperbot: https://www.sciencemag.org/content/339/6118/440
12:04 < paperbot> SSLError: [Errno 1] _ssl.c:504: error:140770FC:SSL routines:SSL23_GET_SERVER_HELLO:unknown protocol (file "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/requests/models.py", line 632, in send)
12:05 < kanzure> https is not supported
12:05 < hifrog> paperbot: 10.1126/science.1226018
12:05 < hifrog> oh hehe
12:05 < hifrog> paperbot: http://www.sciencemag.org/content/339/6118/440
12:05 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/To%20Favor%20Survival%20Under%20Food%20Shortage%2C%20the%20Brain%20Disables%20Costly%20Memory.pdf
12:05 < kanzure> .botsnack 3
12:05 < yoleaux> :D
12:05 < kanzure> (positive reinforcement)
12:05 < hifrog> <3
12:05 < kanzure> nmz787: the backlash in the home dialysis thread is hilarious
12:09 < nmz787> kanzure: weird for sure
12:09 < nmz787> http://www.frontiersin.org/Microbiotechnology,_Ecotoxicology_and_Bioremediation/10.3389/fmicb.2013.00005/full
12:09 < nmz787> Preparing synthetic biology for the world
12:09 < nmz787> Gerd H. G. Moe-Behrens1, Rene Davis2 and Karmella A. Haynes
12:09 < kanzure> paperbot: http://www.frontiersin.org/Microbiotechnology,_Ecotoxicology_and_Bioremediation/10.3389/fmicb.2013.00005/full
12:10 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Preparing%20synthetic%20biology%20for%20the%20world.pdf
12:10 < kanzure> jrayhawk: would you be willing to write the scripts to auto-recompile paperbot when someone pushes to the translators.git repository? i didn't do it when we were talking about it last time. :(
12:11 < nmz787> that article links to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQjF8ir4SKs
12:11 < nmz787> .title
12:11 < yoleaux> compound74 - YouTube
12:11 < nmz787> which lists jake wintermute as a story writer
12:11 < nmz787> and thanks pam silver's lab
12:11 < kanzure> pam silver.. why do i know this name. is she igem related?
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12:12 < nmz787> harvard prof
12:12 < nmz787> jake and she worked on the "Harvard scientists to make LSD factory from microbes"
12:12 < kanzure> so basically every 15 year old's dream?
12:12 < nmz787> i guess older people might dream about that too
12:13 < chris_99> how similar is ergot to LSD
12:13 < nmz787> video is OK
12:13 < nmz787> chris_99: it's a building block of LSD
12:13 < nmz787> well, ergot is a fungus
12:13 < nmz787> ergotamine is what they use
12:14 < chris_99> LSD was the first chemically synthesised drug or something wasn't it or is that my imagination
12:15 < nmz787> someone should ripoff pokemon and call it synbio
12:15 < kanzure> i'm on it
12:15 < nmz787> heroin probably happened earlier
12:15 < kanzure> https://github.com/kanzure/pokemon-prism
12:15 < nmz787> depends on what you mean by synthesized
12:15 < nmz787> they used a natural product as a builiding block
12:15 < nmz787> just as heroin uses
12:15 < chris_99> yeah heroin is easier i bet to make
12:15 < nmz787> and aspirin
12:16 < nmz787> h and asp are just acetylation if i recall correctly
12:16 < chris_99> LSD manufacturing is quite skilled isn't it?
12:16 < nmz787> i think so
12:17 < nmz787> LSA is natural also
12:17 < nmz787> LSD is just the addition of two ethyls
12:17 < nmz787> but I think they're damn hard ethyls to get on
12:17 < nmz787> I actually don't know
12:18 < chris_99> i wish i knew more about chemistry but i always found it very confusing
12:18 < nmz787> it's not much different than e-fields or magnetic field concepts
12:18 < nmz787> opposites attract, likes repel
12:18 < nmz787> but the system is all linked and inducts all around
12:19 < chris_99> mm i see what you mean
12:20 < nmz787> err, the system for a single molecule is coupled, and multiple molecules can act in each other, but really big molecules can fold on themselves and do both
12:20 < nmz787> act on each other*
12:20 < nmz787> so that's why DNA programming isn't just like text
12:20 < nmz787> it's more like demoScene coding
12:20 < chris_99> heh
12:21 < nmz787> http://awards.scene.org/awards.php?year=2011
12:21 < nmz787> wait, download is 45 megs
12:21 < nmz787> is this not what I want?
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12:22 < nmz787> i think kanzure linked to some good ones a while back
12:23 < nmz787> that were just .js
12:23 < chris_99> mm i think i remember those
12:25 < chris_99> hmm theres some weird stuff in there 9.1M Apr 21  2011 Lightwave.dll
12:25 < chris_99> alas doesn't work in wine
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12:26 < nmz787> kanzure: is there a way to track down this chinese dialysis machine guy?
12:28 < nmz787> i searched his name, but it might be better to use chinese characters
12:28 < nmz787> i guess we might have to get his original video translated, if we could find it
12:29 < juri_> I have someone who can help with chinese translation.
12:29 < juri_> (depending which chinese, of course)
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12:36 < nmz787> is there a way to add a linkback between two pages?
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12:42 < kanzure> nmz787: yes it's called a hyperlink
12:43 < kanzure> nmz787: the javascript demoscene stuff you're thinking of might be http://possan.se/junk/webglass/index.html
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12:51 < nmz787> kanzure: do you remember the name/email of the asian guy on diybio who has dr. in his name and i think is from canada, he might be a lawyer or comments a lot on law topics
12:51 < nmz787> i thought it was dr lau
12:56 < kanzure> nmz787: Lawrence Lau <drlawrencelau@gmail.com>
12:59 < kanzure> "After an extended discussion with Thomson, they assured me that common acronyms like JCAP and JHEP are indeed properly mapped to the journal title/abbreviation."
12:59 < kanzure> " I reexamined my data and reached a new and frightening conclusion: it is getting increasingly difficult for Thomson (and I assume all citation database producers) to properly parse, identify, and link cited references for electronic journals that, more and more, are abandoning issue dates, volumes, issue numbers, and pagination."
12:59 < kanzure> "In some cases, such information can be found at the journal site, but with considerable effort. As a result, I believe authors are compiling reference lists using various elements in all sorts of formats (leading zeros, article numbers reported as pagination, etc., a real mess)."
12:59 < kanzure> "This new conclusion was confirmed in email correspondence with Thomson.  To their credit, they are continuing to work on their parsing, capture, and linking algorithms."
13:01 < kanzure> database drift to OCR and people using OCR results :)
13:06 < kanzure> nmz787: i'll grab the bionet archives. i suppose i should also grab the mems-talk archives while i'm at it.
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13:08 < kanzure> nmz787: their server is pretty slow. this seems like these were originally usenet archives?
13:15 < kanzure> "Only about 10-20% of the 2.5 million articles published annually in the world's 24,000 peer-reviewed are being self-archived today" (bionet/jrnlnote, 2004)
13:15 < kanzure> (he meant "in the world's 24,000 peer-reviewed journals")
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14:09 < kanzure> heh a 1991 email about transcranial magnetic stimulation http://www.bio.net/bionet/mm/neur-sci/1991-August/011005.html
14:10 < kanzure> "head and neck.  In the experiment I was in the experimenters were
14:10 < kanzure> trying to stimulate the visual cortex to produce phosphenes. They were
14:10 < kanzure> very faint, but definitely there"
14:12 < nmz787> neat!
14:13 < nmz787> I'm not sure if they were usenet or always on that bio.indiana.edu server
14:16 < nmz787> paperbot: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2958.2006.05584.x/abstract
14:16 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/3e5b73c72c0546bf1e970cf61a1b77c2.txt
14:16 < nmz787> paperbot: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/store/10.1111/j.1365-2958.2006.05584.x/asset/j.1365-2958.2006.05584.x.pdf
14:17 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/8d4a00fbad516ff2077a398470ffa3e3.txt
14:17 < nmz787> kanzure: that first link should work
14:18 < nmz787> access-permission-wise
14:22 < kanzure> ">Or are they simply organisms used for airplanes
14:22 < kanzure> >testing? If so, what for exactly?"
14:22 < kanzure> "The molds listed by ATCC are used in standard methods for testing various
14:22 < kanzure> materials for resistance to deterioration by fungi.  For details see, for
14:22 < kanzure> example, the military standard MIL-STD-810D  Method 508.3.  This was issued
14:22 < kanzure> July 19, 1983, there may be more recent versions.  This standard describes
14:22 < kanzure> the testing methods and some of the reasoning behind them."
14:36 < kanzure> hehe "$4 to $8 per base is not uncommon" in 1992 http://www.bio.net/bionet/mm/methods/1992-April/000843.html
14:39 < kanzure> heh "science is not magic" "For the 'kit scientists', science *is* magic." http://www.bio.net/bionet/mm/methods/1992-July/000282.html
14:40 < kanzure> http://www.bio.net/bionet/mm/methods/1992-July/000279.html
14:40 < kanzure> "In my estimation the problem with the "kit" mentality is that it leads to stagnancy in the development of methods. If you don't understand the basis of what you are doing, how can you troubleshoot, and how can you improve the method. As a previous poster has said, it makes science appear to be agic."
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14:48 < kanzure> *magic
14:51 < kanzure> el cheapo power supply ($10) for pulse field electrophoresis http://www.bio.net/bionet/mm/methods/1997-September/060887.html
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15:26 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Arnold
15:26 < kanzure> "Patrick Arnold is an American organic chemist known for introducing androstenedione, 1-Androstenediol, and methylhexanamine into the dietary supplement market, and for creating the designer steroid tetrahydrogestrinone, also known as THG and "the clear".[1]"
15:26 < kanzure> "THG, along with two other anabolic steroids that Patrick Arnold manufactured (norbolethone and desoxymethyltestosterone (DMT), were drugs at the heart of the BALCO professional sports doping scandal.[2] At the time of their creation, they were not on any banned substance list. BALCO distributed these worldwide to world class athletes from a wide variety of sports ranging from track and field to professional baseball and football."
15:27 < kanzure> "Arnold who is also an amateur bodybuilder, initially gained notoriety as "the Father of Prohormones."[4]"
15:27 < kanzure> "Arnold was sentenced to three months in prison at Federal Correctional Institution, Morgantown in West Virginia for his role in the BALCO incident.[1]"
15:28 < kanzure> http://patrickarnoldblog.com/homemade-steroids-making-users-sick/
15:28 < kanzure> ok i like this guy
15:29 < kanzure> "Patrick currently produces products for the nutritional supplement company E-pharm Nutrition, as well as for Prototype Nutrition.  He continues to be perhaps the number one driving force in the advancement of performance enhancing nutritional supplementation"
15:30 < kanzure> "Little did people realize though that part of the credit for McGuire’s amazing year was owed to chemist Patrick Arnold and his incredible new product androstenedione (a.k.a.Andro) which McGuire used to help him smash 70 homers that season."
15:32 < nmz787> nice
15:33 < nmz787> kanzure: are you going to post that cheapo power supply? i think john griessen would be interested
15:34 < kanzure> nmz787: no, i decided that i did not want to post it because there were no details available.
15:34 < kanzure> you're welcome to, but since there are no details i don't entirely see the point.
15:36 < nmz787> it only uses one part
15:36 < nmz787> which is listed
15:37 < kanzure> maybe i didn't read closely enough. it sounded like there was some circuit involved with multiple parts that were non-disclosed. but i could be wrong.
15:37 < nmz787> nah it
15:38 < nmz787> it's just a 'bridge diode' using AC mains voltage
15:38 < nmz787> actually I guess I won't post it
15:38 < nmz787> I believe we've talked about using a dimmer switch before
15:38 < nmz787> which I think is the same thing
15:38 < kanzure> go ahead and post it anyway, it's useful.
15:39 < kanzure> i checked my email archives to see if anyone has mentioned patrick arnold to me before, and all i got was this (which i just sent to diybio):
15:39 < kanzure> https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/diybio/_nfom6eIrJA
15:40 < nmz787> kanzure: invite him here :P
15:45 < kanzure> "A week after Arnold took his first dose of liquid mestanolone, his life began to change. At the gym, he was on fire. ...  Arnold focused his efforts on a patent he came across while flipping through chemical abstracts. It came from an East German pharmaceutical company called Jenapharm, which produced most of the steroidal compounds used in the former communist nation’s athletic doping program."
15:45 < kanzure> interesting that the german government contracted out all of their steroid procurement to a company.
15:46 < nmz787> guess they're all about efficiency!
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15:47 < nmz787> "In attempting to synthesize crystal meth, these do-it-yourselfers have caused a rash of trailer park explosions and often unwittingly produce a drug coated with toxins like hydroiodic acid. The best way to remove those noxious byproducts is by washing the drug in alcohol using a Bchner funnel, a specialized lab vacuum. But most kitchen chemists have never even heard of it. When this final purification step is skipped, the toxins eat away at the user
15:47 < nmz787> I didn't know 'meth mouth' wasn't caused by methamphetamine smoke itself...
15:48 < kanzure> "Just as Arnold suspected, norbolethone was so obscure that professional doping programs had no reference sample and thus could not detect it."
15:49 < kanzure> "It was a brash entrepreneur named Victor Conte who pushed the limits of that obscurity. He ran a sports-nutrition center in Burlingame, California, called the Bay Area Laboratory Co-operative (BALCO). Through BALCO, Conte sold legal  zinc-magnesium supplements of questionable efficacy and enlisted topflight athletes to promote them. Among them were true superstars: Marion Jones, ... Barry Bonds, ..."
15:52 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_Area_Laboratory_Co-operative
15:53 < kanzure> huh. they only served <2 years in prison for selling steroids.
15:56 < kanzure> heh he communicated by usenet:
15:56 < kanzure> https://groups.google.com/groups/profile?enc_user=mXlCmxIAAADUU-vZ8NL2cxDLZ4x5KpW48rhlH0Pnl47z4AZhN98BFg&hl=en
15:57 < kanzure> patrick arnold: https://groups.google.com/groups/profile?hl=en&enc_user=cvMkqhYAAAALb6sk9UTqGUNKf42inB2nlgUpxsgrFUYz4iGseXwOPQ
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16:08 < nmz787> nothing recent huh
16:11 < kanzure> i heard about him from reading the comments here http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5136254
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16:44 < kanzure> "(especially with the ability to export SWF to JS with easel.js)" well that sounds terrifying
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17:17 < kanzure> dwayne_: hello
17:17 < dwayne_> hello
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17:24 < Guest62567> http://www.jstor.org/stable/40188579
17:24 < Guest62567> test sorry
17:24 < Guest62567> paperbot: http://www.jstor.org/stable/40188579
17:24 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/5671a1dc192d203b65c396e15c0b85aa.txt
17:25 < Guest62567> paperbot: http://www.jstor.org/stable/pdfplus/40188579.pdf
17:25 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/43b57384bf3d7b254dd444730db79f6b.txt
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19:53 < nmz787> kanzure: do you know a place i could ask to identify an IC?
19:54 < kanzure> do you already have it decapped?
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19:55 < nmz787> it has a part number on it
19:55 < nmz787> but it's not googling
19:56 < nmz787> and i don't know the symbol on it
19:56 < kanzure> ah you mean.. visual inspection.
19:56 < kanzure> well, first i would try ##electronics
19:56 < kanzure> then i would try piclist
19:58 < ThomasEgi> nmz787, got a picture and whatever's printed on top of it?
19:58 < ThomasEgi> and where did you find the part (in what device, if any) ?
19:59 < ThomasEgi> my connection might timeout soon.
19:59 < kanzure> also it's possible that octopart or digikey will know the part number even if google does not.
20:00 < ThomasEgi> alldatasheet.com would be another place to search
20:00 < kanzure> isn't that a spam site
20:00 < ThomasEgi> haha. nope.
20:00 < ThomasEgi> it's pretty good recource for finding datasheets
20:01 < ThomasEgi> millions of datasheets there
20:01 < ThomasEgi> excellent recource. also has many older parts that are no longer listed on any online store sites. and from companies that are already out of business
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20:15 < nmz787> i think it's just a temp overload fuse
20:15 < nmz787> thermal protection, and i figured out that it must be working
20:15 < nmz787> since it's on the main AC incoming
20:15 < nmz787> thanks though
20:15 < nmz787> it's in this Hybaid hot air thermal cycler
20:16 < nmz787> i think the relay for the fan is busted
20:16 < nmz787> it has a 0.1 uF + 100 ohm, 10% 10% 630V
20:16 < nmz787> is that big enough to melt a screwdriver if i arc it?
20:17 < nmz787> what is the protocol for discharging caps?
20:18 -!- Juul [~Juul@S0106000db91a6884.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
20:21 < nmz787> hello
20:22 < ThomasEgi> it wont melt the screwdriver
20:22 < ThomasEgi> but you can expeect a bunch of sparks to fly away
20:22 < nmz787> sorry i didn't mean to sound impatient
20:22 < nmz787> ##electronics says i need to login
20:22 < kanzure> that means your irc nickname isn't registered with NickServ
20:22 < kanzure> /query nickserv help
20:22 < nmz787> and i wans't sure if irssi wasnt responding
20:22 < kanzure> /query nickserv register
20:23 < ThomasEgi> propper protocol is to disconnect them from the power source. and discharge over a resistor ( of adequate value, not to small or it'll burst, not too high or you'll wait ways to long)
20:24 < ThomasEgi> the big capacitors (0.1uF isn't really big) are stored with the terminals shorted , so they don't accidently charge up from some random source.
20:25 < nmz787> col
20:25 < nmz787> cool
20:25 < nmz787> logged in now
20:25 < nmz787> yeah
20:25 < nmz787> my prof a while ago had a 'death cap'
20:25 < nmz787> it was the size of three or four of those lantern batteries
20:25 < ThomasEgi> yeah. those are fun.
20:25 < ThomasEgi> but .. there are even bigger ones
20:26 < ThomasEgi> like used to buffer the starter motors of big engines.
20:26 < ThomasEgi> they can go like 10kA short current eachh
20:27 < nmz787> crydom solid state relay
20:27 < nmz787> wow
20:27 < ThomasEgi> that cap you have there. a 2Mohm resistor should discharge it safely.
20:27 < ThomasEgi> might take a while. but you can check with a voltmeter.
20:28 < ThomasEgi> given a regular 0.25W resistor
20:32 < ThomasEgi> and there goes my connection.. i guess
20:32 < ThomasEgi> and.. i'm back .. i guess
20:34 < nmz787> well shorting the ss relay with tweezers turns the fan on
20:35 < ThomasEgi> shorting.. relay.. tweezers..
20:35 < ThomasEgi> that doesn't make a very trustworthy mental picture
20:36 < nmz787> yeah then i flipped it on remotely from a power strip
20:36 < ThomasEgi> as long as you stay away from life wires
20:37 < nmz787> yeah
20:37 < ThomasEgi> otherwise it sounds like.. http://f.kulfoto.com/pic/0001/0015/L80Cl14168.jpg
20:37 < nmz787> i don't think i have any romex
20:37 < nmz787> aww
20:37 < nmz787> that's really cute
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20:41 < yash-phone> city council meetings are unexpectedly boring
20:50 < kanzure> what were you expecting, pitchforks?
20:51 < yash-phone> kinda
20:51 < yash-phone> it's all angry old people with no points
20:51 < yash-phone> for the last 3 hours
20:52 < yash-phone> jojack's quite confident we'll get the space though
20:52 < kanzure> ask him about peter arnold
20:53 < kanzure> log has deets.. http://gnusha.org/logs/2013-01-29.log
20:53 < kanzure> oops.. patrick arnold
20:54 < yash-phone> ya he mentioned it to me briefly over pizza, dude males/ingests designer roids or what?
20:54 < yash-phone> makes*
20:55 < kanzure> seems he is a chemist bodybuilder
20:55 < kanzure> fuck now i want pizza. that is a good idea.
20:55 < yash-phone> it was good pizza
20:57 < kanzure> also if you need to keep yourself amused, there was that weird backlast against home dialysis in a diybio thread
20:59 < yash-phone> will give it a browse
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21:02 < nmz787> well looks like i have a working air thermo cycler
21:02 < nmz787> it looks like it just uses halogen light bulbs like you get anywhere for cheap
21:03 < nmz787> the bulb it came with is good though
21:03 < nmz787> saw a tag that said 1990
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21:29 < yash-phone> it passed
21:30 < kanzure> this will forever be known as the san diego superdisaster of 2013
21:32 < yash-phone> mwuahaha
21:32 < kanzure> [x] pipette tips, check
21:32 < kanzure> [x] lc columns, check
21:32 < kanzure> [x] free weights
21:38 < kanzure> were there people opposed to it?
21:42 < yash-phone> nope
21:42 < yash-phone> gonna go grab beers
22:04 -!- xx is now known as tofuboss
22:08 < kanzure> "Easiest way to reach him is to make a burner account on ProhormoneForum.com - he's got his own section there where he posts a few times a day."
22:09 < kanzure> wtf http://www.prohormoneforum.com/content/
22:09 < kanzure> http://www.prohormoneforum.com/q-patrick-arnold/
22:11 -!- tofuboss is now known as xx
22:18 < kanzure> "It appears that you've exceeded the maximum number of posts you can view, but wait, there's a simple solution. To unlock the forum and continue viewing messages,"
22:18 < kanzure> yep this place is evil
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23:40 < kanzure> "the dead grandmother problem" http://pike.psu.edu/dongwon/pro/grannies.pdf
23:43 < archels> no standard error bars? tsk
23:43 < kanzure> +- 1 granny
23:44  * Juul is in vancouver for no good reason
23:44 < Juul> is there anything good in vancouver?
23:46 < Juul> they could also have all exams be unannounced
23:46 < Juul> so many possible solutions are missing
23:46 < kanzure> the twist could be that the professor murdered your granny, and he knows it
23:46 < Juul> there is a serious lack of creative thinking in this article
23:46 < kanzure> Juul: there's vancouver hackerspace and upverter
23:47 < kanzure> Juul: also http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/groups#vancouver
23:47 < Juul> the vancouver hackerspace is nice. i went there straight from the airport, but i didn't know about upverter
23:48 < kanzure> upverter is like circuitlab sorta
23:49 < kanzure> also go find michael yamashita
23:50 < kanzure> there's a nice aquarium in vancouver, i hear
23:50 < Juul> good idea
23:50 < Juul> yeah! i do love aquariums
23:50 < Juul> as long as they don't feel like fish prisons
23:50 < kanzure> it is giant
23:51 < kanzure> i was supposed to go last time i went but i rebuilt an alternator instead
23:51 < Juul> hah
23:51 < kanzure> how long are you in vancouver?
23:51 < kanzure> go whistler maybe
23:52 < Juul> 4 days only
23:53 < Juul> cool
23:53 < Juul> thanks for the tips
23:53 < kanzure> also you could go south to thegeekgroup over the border
23:53 < Juul> ah, i'm having some visa stuff
23:54 < kanzure> hacking the system?
23:54 < Juul> so i'm trying to re-enter in a nice way
23:54 < Juul> "look: i'm flying in from canada. that means i'm not a jobless bum!"
23:54 < kanzure> vancouver airport has US customs on site
23:55 < Juul> so they check your passport before you take off?
23:55 < kanzure> yes
23:55 < Juul> well, let's hope they like my plan of being a tourist in the u.s. for the next couple of months
23:58 < kanzure> i like it.
--- Log closed Wed Jan 30 00:00:45 2013