--- Log opened Thu Jul 11 00:00:22 2013
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05:56 < chris_99> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-23244768
05:56 < chris_99> .title
05:56 < yoleaux> BBC News - Scientists building the world's first synthetic yeast
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08:36 <@kanzure> chris_99: that sounds like a lie ("first")
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08:39 <@kanzure> "I am at SB6.0, and they just announced that in 2014 they will be inviting DIY teams to the IGEM competition"
08:39 <@kanzure> yawn.. 6-7 years too late. damn you, randy!
08:42 <@kanzure> http://what-if.xkcd.com/53/ "How quickly would the ocean's drain if a circular portal 10 meters in radius leading into space was created at the bottom of Challenger Deep, the deepest spot in the ocean? How would the Earth change as the water is being drained?"
08:42 <@kanzure> looks like they stole my idea for fixing the oil spill in the gulf of mexico
08:43 < heath> Rather, I am interested in how processes in biology and chemistry can actually act as computers and execute molecular algorithms. -- http://www.dna.caltech.edu/~pwkr/
08:44 < heath> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=HjR6hzAYygk#t=114s
08:45 < heath> .title
08:45 < yoleaux> 3d printing living things DNA by Cambrian Genomics - YouTube
08:45 < heath> "Proteins don't "execute".  They fold and unfold.  They bounce..."
08:46 <@kanzure> i met paul once. nice fellow. he also helped out on nanoengineer-1.
08:47 < heath> that last quote was from anselm
08:47 <@kanzure> yes, well, so was the one i told you to read yesterday, but i don't think you did
08:47 < heath> i read, that was from the thread
08:47 <@kanzure> ah okay.
08:47 <@kanzure> good
08:48 < heath> his coworker is equating dna to a computer code in that video
08:48 <@kanzure> yes, well, it's a very lucrative hype machine that the synthetic biology crowd has created
08:49 < heath> i don't think that he disagrees there's computation going on, he's just trying to state that it's not exactly like the digital computers we program today
08:49 <@kanzure> so in some cases i can see it's okay to say those things, like if you're raising venture capital
08:49 < gradstudentbot> Future work will focus on that.
08:49 <@kanzure> because in the context of billions of dollars of venture capital, sure, something interesting can be made to happen. like cheap dna synthesis. or genome synthesis.
08:49 < heath> paul is a collaborator for this project: http://www.cds.caltech.edu/~murray/wiki/index.php/Biomolecular_Breadboards_for_Prototyping_and_Debugging_Synthetic_Biocircuits
08:50 < heath> i was surprised to see his name on the list
08:50 <@kanzure> why would you be surprised to see rothemund anywhere?
08:50 <@kanzure> considering how much involvement he has in everything?
08:51 < heath> i've never seen his name associated with synbio
08:51 <@kanzure> he's cited very frequently
08:51 <@kanzure> he hangs out with lots of synthetic biology peeps
08:51 <@kanzure> ok whatever
08:56 < jonathan_> " 29% reported they had snooped on someone else’s phone. Among those under 35, however, almost half – 47% – admitted snooping."
08:57 <@kanzure> is it snooping if someone gives you their phone and lets you poke around?
08:57 < jonathan_> no
08:58 < jonathan_> it's snooping when a jealous girl sneaks over to your phone and goes thru it while you're in the bathroom.
09:00  * heath is looking for a project to work on..
09:00  * heath is considering making an open version of http://cando-dna-origami.org/
09:02 <@kanzure> heath: how about fixing nanoengineer? https://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer#readme
09:02 <@kanzure> heath: or paperbot. :(
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09:04 < cathalgarvey> paperbot: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0003269700950061?np=y
09:04 < cathalgarvey> Hi all!
09:04 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag1/10.1006/abio.2000.5006.pdf
09:04 < cathalgarvey> Just going insane and need a ref, don't mind me..
09:04 <@kanzure> cathalgarvey: hello
09:05 < cathalgarvey> Libgen.org now? Cool!
09:05 < gradstudentbot> Paper submitted.
09:05 < cathalgarvey> @kanzure You at synbio 6?
09:05 <@kanzure> nope. busy hacking.
09:05 <@kanzure> paperbot is now routing requests through the seedy underworld of russia
09:06 < cathalgarvey> Haha awesome
09:06 <@kanzure> cathalgarvey: have you met gradstudentbot? he's been working on a few papers.
09:06 < gradstudentbot> I coauthored a paper about that a few years ago.
09:06 < cathalgarvey> Actually, I tried sci-hub first, and it just kept forwarding me to scholar or pubmed
09:06 < cathalgarvey> Was v. disappointed, but I suspect it's something to do with my stringent anti-plugin/frames/cookies/popups browser..
09:07 < cathalgarvey> Love him, he fills so many social niches we struggle with right now
09:07 < cathalgarvey> :)
09:07 <@kanzure> ah, well, paperbot runs gecko, so it does that javascript/cookie/popup stuff for you
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09:08 < cathalgarvey> Thank you, bot-friends and bot-maintainers
09:08 < cathalgarvey> May you stay out of prison for many years to come :)
09:08 <@kanzure> cathalgarvey: could you spend 2 minutes telling heath (in here) about your python/bioinformatics stuff? he is looking for a project to do.
09:08 < cathalgarvey> Hm!
09:08 < cathalgarvey> Two minutes, OK. That's my deadline anyway!
09:08 < heath> bring it
09:08 <@kanzure> i figured
09:08 < cathalgarvey> Hi Heath, I authored two sketchy and incomplete python synbio projects so far:
09:09 < cathalgarvey> PySplicer, which was such a mess to begin with that I basicaly rewrote it recently
09:10 < heath> "Fasta Compiler: a simple, extensible bash-style scripting language for synthetic biology."
09:10 < cathalgarvey> It performs codon optimisation using a weighted-random selection system ( you have to feed it codon frequency tables for your target species), while excluding specified DNA patterns and (most recently) trying to avoid secondary structures in the 5' portion of the RNA.
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09:10 < cathalgarvey> And yes, Fasta Compiler, the other half of a not-yet-integrated cohesive compiler. I ultimately want PySplicer to be a part of FastaC, athough I also want to rewrite Fastac to be not-hideous
09:11 < cathalgarvey> FastaC is designed to be back-compatible with straight-Fasta, so you can use existing Fasta files as "libraries". I'm also planning to build a Genbank parser into the backend so you can treat bacterial genomes as namespaces in the compiler.
09:11 < cathalgarvey> Quite simply it allows you to treat multifasta files as namespaces of sequences, and perform some transforms and templating operations upon them.
09:12 < cathalgarvey> Which is 90% of what a "DNA programming language" according to our current level of mastery involves.
09:12 <@kanzure> cathalgarvey: i think something like that would be useful, but why does it have to be a new language? why not use an existing language like python, and then have a thing that loads a fasta file into an object, and then you can operate on that object using normal python conventions?
09:12 < cathalgarvey> @kanzure Partly because it was an exercise in building a (terrible) language of its own.
09:12 < cathalgarvey> And partly to keep the function separate from the implementation.
09:13 <@kanzure> do you know about parser generators and compiler grammars?
09:13 < cathalgarvey> Although since it ended up seeming very bash-script-ey, that's not much of a virtue really
09:13 < cathalgarvey> Ha, trying. Although every time I look into Parsers, everything I find is written assuming you already "get" everything.
09:13 <@kanzure> i think that's what the dragon book is for
09:13 < cathalgarvey> I'm thinking of ditching my effort at finding a nice python for-idiots parser and just writing a hideous regex-based parser..
09:13 <@kanzure> http://www.amazon.com/Compilers-Principles-Techniques-Alfred-Aho/dp/0201100886
09:13 < cathalgarvey> Ah, cool
09:14 < cathalgarvey> will look into that
09:14 < ParahSailin> just use genome compiler, i hear they've done all the heavy lifting on DNA programming languages
09:14 < cathalgarvey> TY
09:14 <@kanzure> ParahSailin: how are you not banned yet
09:14 < ParahSailin> what does that even mean, dna programming language
09:14 < heath> i started working on a "compiler for genetic circuits" the other day, but then i was dissuaded
09:14 < cathalgarvey> Genome Compiler is closed source bullshit, no interest. At this point, I design most stuff by hand anyway, so I'm not missing out on any bizarre special sauce.
09:14 < cathalgarvey> Right, I'm off guys, sorry!
09:14 <@kanzure> seeya
09:14 < cathalgarvey> parenting calls
09:14 < cathalgarvey> :)
09:15 < ParahSailin> what is your bedrock abstraction going to be
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09:16 < heath> ParahSailin: me?
09:16 < heath> ah, cathal
09:18 < heath> for me it was building off "amplifying genetic logic gates" by endy
09:18 <@kanzure> isn't that just a buzzwordy way of saying pcr.
09:19 < heath> i'm not sure
09:20 <@kanzure> hey if you wanna be helpful can you go find the paper about cellular uptake of different dna origami shapes
09:21 < heath> oooh, that sounds fun
09:22 < heath> mirkin was talking about his SNAs yesterday and states his group had removed the sphere the nucleic acides were attached to
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09:23 < heath> kanzure: http://dash.harvard.edu/handle/1/9556124?show=full
09:23 < heath> is that the one you're looking for?
09:27 < heath> favorite quote of the day
09:27 < heath> [11:14:03] <ParahSailin> just use genome compiler, i hear they've done all the heavy lifting on DNA programming languages
09:31 <@kanzure> "Feds, we need some time apart" https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/diybio/FPQeUtmTKDM
09:31 <@kanzure> https://www.defcon.org/#dc21fedbreak
09:31 <@kanzure> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6024094
09:31 <@kanzure> "For over two decades DEF CON has been an open nexus of hacker culture, a place where seasoned pros, hackers, academics, and feds can meet, share ideas and party on neutral territory. Our community operates in the spirit of openness, verified trust, and mutual respect. When it comes to sharing and socializing with feds, recent revelations have made many in the community uncomfortable about this relationship. Therefore, I think it would be ...
09:32 <@kanzure> ... best for everyone involved if the feds call a "time-out" and not attend DEF CON this year. This will give everybody time to think about how we got here, and what comes next. - The Dark Tangent"
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09:41 < jonathan_> the defcon guys are mostly lame
09:42 < jonathan_> no better than diybio
09:42 < jonathan_> they build an LED cube and think it's the most amazing thing ever
09:42 < jonathan_> or write a perl cgi and think it's the most amazing thing ever
09:42 <@kanzure> hey man, fastcgi is rockin'.... ok maybe not.
09:44 < jonathan_> omg i can run a scanner and discover all the hidden ssid's around me! i'm so uber hax0r
09:45 < jonathan_> omg i can toggle an i/o line on the rasberry pi now i can control the world  .. umm maybe not
09:45 < nmz787> while defcon is crying, feds be slacking with diybio meeting this year
09:47 < jonathan_> man freakin bernanke
09:47 < jonathan_> he's the uber hax0r
09:47 < nmz787> ben?
09:47 <@kanzure> the fbi drones are always slacking on organizing the diybio meeting
09:47 < jonathan_> he is crashing financial markets every da
09:48 <@kanzure> they usually end up a month or two behind schedule
09:48 <@kanzure> so i predict october or maybe september
09:48 < jonathan_> how much does the fbi pay for information?
09:49 < jonathan_> next step for diybio:   double agents
09:49 < jonathan_> fake projects on kickstarter are not enough!
09:50 <@kanzure> double agents? so the fbi will claim they are fbi, but really they are what?
09:52 < jonathan_> the diybio hax0rs will claim they are uber uber and really they are working for the nsa
09:53 < jonathan_> and also paid fbi informants
09:53 < nmz787> bring on the salary
09:53 < jonathan_> see?   you're all sell outs
09:54 < nmz787> too many underground projects around, need unseen regulatory oversight
09:55 < jonathan_> or, fake projects which raise visibility
09:55 < jonathan_> "the secret cryogenics project that really works"  then wait for diybio kiddies to join in
09:55 < nmz787> lol
09:56 < nmz787> get em to start freezing themselves with a faulty process, to weed out the crowd
10:04 < jonathan_> then again, the fbi is not that clever, so...
10:14 < nmz787> paperbot: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/articleDetails.jsp?tp=&arnumber=995823&url=http%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fiel5%2F97%2F21489%2F00995823
10:14 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1109%2F97.995823
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10:36 < nmz787> so where is the SB6.0 torrent?
10:47 <@kanzure> nobody torrents it because they are all lame
10:47 <@kanzure> wrong subculture
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10:50 < ParahSailin> lol sci-hub pdfcache does not require proxy
10:50 < ParahSailin> i guess this should not surprise me
10:50 < ParahSailin> not sure why that didnt occur to me earlier
10:51 <@kanzure> well it's not that useful though
10:51 <@kanzure> there's only ~100 files stored there at a time
10:51 < jonathan_> pdfcache?
10:51 < ParahSailin> still, simplifies the code
10:51 < ParahSailin> dont need to pass that cookie when getting those
10:51 <@kanzure> jonathan_: http://sci-hub.org/pdfcache/
10:52 <@kanzure> oh this is much more than ~100
10:52 <@kanzure> there seems to be about 15 files from 2013-03-01 and then the rest are from 2013-07-11
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11:17 < nmz787> paperbot: http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-642-02391-0_26
11:17 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag4/10.1007/978-3-642-02391-0.pdf
11:18 < nmz787> we're cool
11:18 < nmz787> wait
11:18 < nmz787> that isn't the right pdf
11:19 < nmz787> that's just the TOC
11:19 < nmz787> of the book that i asked for a chapter of
11:19 < nmz787> huh
11:19 < nmz787> so there are two pdf links on the signed-in journal page
11:20 <@kanzure> you hsould use the exact link to the chapter
11:20 < nmz787> 'Download Book (5,551 KB)  Download Chapter (275 KB)'
11:20 <@kanzure> *should
11:20 < nmz787> unsigned-in it didn't show me
11:20 < nmz787> and the link i pasted is to the whole chapter
11:21 < nmz787> 'As a courtesy to our readers, the eBook is provided DRM-free. However, please not that an invisible watermark has been included to safeguard the author's interests'
11:21 <@kanzure> they are lying, it's just metadata
11:21 < nmz787> paperbot: link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007%2F978-3-642-02391-0_26.pdf
11:22 <@kanzure> paperbot: link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007%2F978-3-642-02391-0_26.pdf
11:22 <@kanzure> erm
11:22 <@kanzure> paperbot: http://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007%2F978-3-642-02391-0_26.pdf
11:22 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/5555ba56a955075b676993cf3ce11a15.pdf
11:22 < nmz787> so it got it that time
11:23 < nmz787> paperbot: http://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007%2F978-3-642-02391-0.pdf
11:23 <@kanzure> <xmp:CreatorTool>Arbortext Advanced Print Publisher 9.0.223/W Unicode</xmp:CreatorTool>
11:23 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag4/10.1007/978-3-642-02391-0.pdf
11:23 <@kanzure> <pdf:Producer>Acrobat Distiller 8.1.0 (Windows)</pdf:Producer>
11:23 <@kanzure> <xmpMM:DocumentID>uuid:0d239f6c-0a54-4aca-94d3-00b018e3db1a</xmpMM:DocumentID>
11:23 < nmz787> huh, so my ezproxy can get the whole book, but libgen cant
11:23 <@kanzure>  <x:xmpmeta xmlns:x="adobe:ns:meta/" x:xmptk="Adobe XMP Core 4.2.1-c043 52.372728, 2009/01/18-15:08:04        ">
11:24 <@kanzure> <?xpacket begin="" id="W5M0MpCehiHzreSzNTczkc9d"?
11:29 < nmz787> wait so why is that paper on diyhplus?
11:29 < nmz787> pdx doesnt have access to it
11:30 < ParahSailin> invisible watermark is isomorphic to metadata
11:30 < nmz787> paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0956713509000759
11:30 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag4/10.1016/j.foodcont.2009.03.002.pdf
11:31 < nmz787> so are pdfs on libgen assumed to be stable or not?
11:32 < nmz787> wtf is this e=reader http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2218926/
11:32 < nmz787> it sucks
11:32 < nmz787> and i can't figure out how to change it
11:32 < nmz787> paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2218926/
11:32 < ParahSailin> libgen pdfs are stable
11:32 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1155%2F2007%2F82612
11:33 < ParahSailin> thats functionality is broken though, sorry
11:33 < nmz787> paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0963996912005443
11:33 < ParahSailin> libgen html is quite irregular, so detecting whether a pdf is on there or not is not straightforward
11:33 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Producing%20more%20with%20less%3A%20Strategies%20and%20novel%20technologies%20for%20plant-based%20food%20biofortification.txt
11:33 < nmz787> :(
11:33 < ParahSailin> is http://sci-hub.org/pdfcache/f7f94bc6454fc29132ce230638244d8f.pdf it?
11:34 < nmz787> yes
11:34 < nmz787> well
11:35 < nmz787> yes
11:35 < nmz787> so the last paper, paperbot should have local access to
11:35 < nmz787> paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=MiamiImageURL&_cid=271165&_user=1694017&_pii=S0963996912005443&_check=y&_origin=article&_zone=toolbar&_coverDate=28-Dec-2012&view=c&originContentFamily=serial&wchp=dGLbVlV-zSkzV&md5=b395b9d413092d45e17ba46272fae58e&pid=1-s2.0-S0963996912005443-main.pdf
11:35 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/6caca47e4bd220d5e36c036f15ac5556.pdf
11:37 < nmz787> paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0278691512007533
11:37 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag4/10.1016/j.fct.2012.10.016.pdf
11:37 < nmz787> paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0278691508003797
11:37 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag4/10.1016/j.fct.2008.06.092.pdf
11:38 < gradstudentbot> Who's in charge of the master mix?
11:46 < nmz787> well seems like sb6.0 must be over now
11:46 < nmz787> '1) Access videos of the plenary sessions live online, while the conference is taking place  for free.'
11:46 < nmz787> and i guess that means i can't see the free videos
11:47 <@kanzure> they might have saved them on livestream.com already. or they might be the type that will upload them in 4 months.
11:49 < nmz787> seems unlikely "2) Within 24 hours of each session, professionally edited videos of all the presentations made in the main auditorium from all three days of the conference will be available online for viewing in a stable, encoded, compressed format for reliable, smooth playback at your convenience.  You must register for this portion of the SB6.0 Digital Conference.  The fee is $199."
11:49 < nmz787> http://sb6.biobricks.org/digital-conference/
11:49 < nmz787> they want some kind of access code
11:49 < nmz787> i tried the sample they have there
11:50 < nmz787> didnt work
11:57 < nmz787> .wa 0.5mL 10mM datp to grams
11:58 < yoleaux> convert 0.500 mL of 10 mM 2'-deoxyadenosine 5'-triphosphate to grams: 0.00246 grams; Unit conversions: 2.46 mg (milligrams); 2.46×10⁻⁶ kg (kilograms); Comparisons as mass: ~(0.03 ~1/37) × typical large sand grain mass (~9×10⁻⁵ kg); ~0.8 × mass of a typical snowflake (~3×10⁻⁶ kg); ~mass of a typical mosquito (~1×10⁻⁶ kg); Interpretation: mass
11:58 < nmz787> bitchin
11:59 < gradstudentbot> I had to remind my professor who I was today.
11:59 < nmz787> huh, so phosphoramidite nucleotides are cheaper than triphosphate nucleotides
11:59 < nmz787> phosphoramidite is $50/g those are $8500
12:09 < nmz787> paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2443811
12:12 < nmz787> paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0076687987520110
12:12 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/%5B8%5D%20Electrophoresis%20in%20agarose%20and%20acrylamide%20gels.txt
12:12 < nmz787> paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com.proxy.lib.pdx.edu/science?_ob=MiamiImageURL&_cid=273025&_user=1694017&_pii=0076687987520110&_check=y&_origin=article&_zone=toolbar&_coverDate=31-Dec-1987&view=c&originContentFamily=serial&wchp=dGLbVlB-zSkzS&md5=a8f3aa5bf83e0521703afe7c28184b35&pid=1-s2.0-0076687987520110-main.pdf
12:12 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag3/10.1016/0076-6879%252887%252952011-0.pdf
12:13 < nmz787> Not Found
12:13 < nmz787> 'The requested URL /scimag3/10.1016/0076-6879%2887%2952011-0.pdf was not found on this server.'
12:13 < nmz787> paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=MiamiImageURL&_cid=273025&_user=1694017&_pii=0076687987520110&_check=y&_origin=article&_zone=toolbar&_coverDate=31-Dec-1987&view=c&originContentFamily=serial&wchp=dGLbVlB-zSkzS&md5=a8f3aa5bf83e0521703afe7c28184b35&pid=1-s2.0-0076687987520110-main.pdf
12:14 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/a7a9a12e7fe167c34cf561065802cf77.txt
12:14 < nmz787> well this one's for the world: http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/Electrophoresis_in_Agarose_and_Acrylamide_Gels.pdf
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12:21 <@kanzure> welcome back
12:21 < cathalgarvey> Hey all, decided to come back and lurk now that Clara's asleep (or pretending to be) :)
12:23 < nmz787> you're like Harry Potter's Irish counterpart
12:23 < nmz787> except more real
12:23 <@kanzure> the star of a billion dollar franchise?
12:24 < nmz787> accented magician
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12:25 < nmz787> how have your projects been coming along cathalgarvey
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12:26 < cathalgarvey> Confused, but it's not the first time I've been compared to harry potter.. mostly by mild resemblance to the protagonist (and this weird scar on my forehead..)
12:26 < cathalgarvey> My projects are going indeterminably
12:27 < cathalgarvey> Because I've discovered what any oldtimer coulda told me about wild type GFP
12:27 < cathalgarvey> it sucks
12:27 < cathalgarvey> and E.coli itself is autofluorescent in roughly the same bands as wtGFP
12:27 < nmz787> huh
12:27 < cathalgarvey> as is most media containing yeast extract
12:27 < gradstudentbot> I'm so doing industry.
12:28 < gradstudentbot> I haven't written the abstract.
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12:28 < nmz787> as far as the harry potter comment, you're close to england which i think is where he was from, and biotech is way cooler than whatever cool magic he was portrayed with
12:29 < nmz787> ala kazam, wtGFP just got mutated into betterGFP
12:30 < nmz787> cathalgarvey: so are mutated species allowed over there?
12:30 < cathalgarvey> Yea he was Londonese :)
12:30 < cathalgarvey> Mutants are OK, but artificial mutants are a gray area
12:30 < ParahSailin> you could only get wt gfp?
12:30 < nmz787> cathalgarvey: i was reading about all these mutant foods on the market over here, and there is almost no food safety testing been done or required
12:31 < cathalgarvey> Nope, I was hoping that if it worked well in testing then I could sail straight to release, but anything better than GFP is patented, AFAIK
12:31 < cathalgarvey> So I said "stick with wtGFP, it doesn't have to be that bright"
12:31 < nmz787> found a paper saying transcriptional changed are all over the place compared to GMO
12:31 < cathalgarvey> and how wrong I was
12:31 < cathalgarvey> @nmz787 Yea, I had a plant science prof who used to pump mutation breeding as the way forward because it was less regulated or blanket scaremonger-bombed than GMO.
12:32 < ParahSailin> you dont have to obey patents
12:32 < cathalgarvey> Had some funny stories about running a plantation in..Lebanon? :)
12:32 < cathalgarvey> @ParahSailin that's cute, but actually I do, because I'm hoping to run a business out of this and refuse to implement defensive patenting.
12:32 < cathalgarvey> And I'm in Europe, where we (for once) actually have a worse patent situation biotech-wise than the US, now.
12:33 < ParahSailin> business out of what?
12:33 < cathalgarvey> although even in US, eGFP et al are still explicitly patentable.
12:33 < cathalgarvey> Business out of Free/Libre DNA tools for cheap, easy molecular biology.
12:33 < cathalgarvey> Sadly much of that involves soul-destroying patent evasion
12:33 < ParahSailin> and someone's gonna sequence your constructs to check if you're infringing on anything?
12:33 < cathalgarvey> You'd be surprised how many seemingly silly, desperate things have been patented..
12:34 < cathalgarvey> ..sequence?
12:34 < cathalgarvey> I said Free/Libre, I'm not gonna be keeping the source secret ffs
12:35 < nmz787> he's saying if you stomp other patents
12:36 < ParahSailin> it sounds like you're tilting at windmills here
12:36 < nmz787> what's that mean?
12:36 < nmz787> bringing your head close to a choper?
12:36 < nmz787> chopper
12:36 < nmz787> chopping device
12:36 < cathalgarvey> :)
12:37 < ParahSailin> before he became a character in a fighting game, the mexican known as cervantes wrote a book
12:37 < nmz787> don quixote
12:37 < cathalgarvey> Speaking of Free/Libre, @kanzure: You gave out once that I used the AGPL, without saying what exactly was wrong with it.. got a link or ref to arguments against?
12:37 < cathalgarvey> Besides virality, which is the selling point AFAIC.
12:37 < nmz787> you're saying the megacorps are just windmills, and cathalgarvey thinks they're attackers?
12:38 < gradstudentbot> Have you read this paper?
12:39 < ParahSailin> tilting at windmills is a poetic way of saying doing impractical things for idealistic reasons
12:39 <@kanzure> cathalgarvey: no, i don't have a good link to explain why i don't like AGPL
12:40 < nmz787> an engineer that's good with poetry!
12:41 < cathalgarvey> @kanzure Fair 'nuff! So it's not something special to the AGPL, similar reasons to why one might like GPL, then?
12:41 <@kanzure> ParahSailin: i thought it was 'chasing windmills' not 'tilting windmills'
12:41 < ParahSailin> simple solution if you actually think someone would take legal action against you, just declare bankruptcy with the shell corporation that is liable and you can keep all the salary you paid yourself
12:41 < ParahSailin> kanzure: among illiterate people yes
12:41 <@kanzure> cathalgarvey: AGPL has some specific problems of the same style that CC-NC has. i just don't remember the details.
12:42 <@kanzure> ParahSailin: i have never claimed literacy. in fact, i'm not even reading your messages. i'm making them up as i go. :)
12:42 < ParahSailin> tilt is an archaic verb for what the cataphracts do in a jousting match
12:42 < cathalgarvey> @ParahSailin That saves you, but the product you released is still not legal for others to build upon without risk of patent assault.
12:43 < cathalgarvey> @ParahSailin That's why FLOSS software avoids patents instead of going bullheaded and shell-company'd: it achieves nothing ultimately because the software remains patented.
12:43 < ParahSailin> thats safely not your problem
12:43 <@kanzure> floss software does not avoid patents always
12:43 < cathalgarvey> It is if my mission is FLOS Bio and not just a salary.
12:43 <@kanzure> in fact, that's why you agree to CLAs and copyright assignment agreements
12:43 < ParahSailin> thought you said you wanted to make a living out of it
12:43 <@kanzure> and i imagine there would even be patent agreements for downstream contributions
12:44 < cathalgarvey> @ParahSailin a living is required to continue hacking and making the end-goal happen.
12:44 < ParahSailin> your customers can either do the same thing or be non-profit
12:44 < ParahSailin> whats the problem
12:44 <@kanzure> non-profit status does not make you immune to patent litigation
12:45 < cathalgarvey> And in US, private individuals are not allowed break patents, either
12:45 < ParahSailin> you can cross that bridge when you come to it
12:45 < ParahSailin> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_exemption
12:45 < cathalgarvey> If  you think you can develop better/faster by just ignoring patents and crossing the mass-litigation bridge as it arises, be my guest. Not my cup of tea.
12:45 <@kanzure> that's research-only, like in an institution
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12:45 <@kanzure> non-institutional research is unprotected
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12:46 < nmz787> ParahSailin: i thought duke law school did a good dissection and found there legally is no exemption
12:46 < cathalgarvey> Or even justifiably research-oriented amateur activity. Courts aren't stupid in that particular regard, they can tell a bullshitter
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12:46 < ParahSailin> and university of california is gonna go after every kid on the diybio list you sold egfp to?
12:46 < cathalgarvey> Off for dinner, AFK
12:47 < ParahSailin> i seriously doubt that
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12:47 < ParahSailin> as i said, this is all tilting at windmills
12:48 < ParahSailin> i bet you dont jaywalk either
12:50 < nmz787> i was born in the city that invented jaywalking
12:51 < nmz787> but that's a bit less penalized and certainly less financially risky
12:52 <@kanzure> well, it just means you have to sell it anonymously and in bitcoins
12:52 <@kanzure> and then dont care about patent litigation
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12:53 < nmz787> i guess that duke thing is a bit old
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12:53 < ParahSailin> my solution of declaring bankruptcy in the infinitely improbable event that someone actually trolls your for money would work
12:53 < nmz787> there has been newer precedent
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12:53 < nmz787> seems like he's right about other people not wanting to build on shaky ground
12:54 < ParahSailin> hes not trying to sell counterfeit avastin here
12:54 < ParahSailin> come to think of it, pirate avastin seems quite appropiate
12:54 < nmz787> yes
12:55 <@kanzure> ParahSailin: gimme a small writeup and how much cash you want, it will be received by a black suitcase on the 18th
12:55 < nmz787> i'm working with some folks on a shikimate project
12:55 < ParahSailin> yar, avastin matey
12:56 < ParahSailin> nmz787: but his customers are just gonna be kids playing with toys
12:57 < ParahSailin> any grownup customer making a business out of it would presumably be competent enough to know how to navigate IP law
12:58 <@kanzure> grownupbot
12:58 < ParahSailin> you're gonna be 20-30 years behind if you obey every law and bootstrap absolutely everything
12:58 <@kanzure> bootstrapping doesn't take 20 years
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12:59 < ParahSailin> developing your own, unencumbered egfp might only take 1 year
12:59 < ParahSailin> developing your own, unencumbered YYY might only take another year
12:59 < ParahSailin> by the time you have enough components for your kit, thats about 20 years of work
12:59 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@192-195-81-250.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:59 <@kanzure> it's not like you're constantly working on egfp
12:59 <@kanzure> most of the time i find that projects are 'set and forget, until the timer fucking beeps"
13:00 < ParahSailin> not to mention all the cost of reagents you're pouring into this quixotic black hole
13:00 < gradstudentbot> The real reason I wanted to join this lab was because I love to clean glassware.
13:01 < nmz787> i think there's merit and value in what cathalgarvey desires
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13:01 < nmz787> if it was done right, grownups would use the stuff too
13:01 < ParahSailin> yes there's merit and value, but value < cost
13:02 < nmz787> doing it right is complex here though, since it's both legal doing right, and molbio doing right
13:02 <@kanzure> of avoiding all things ever specified by patents? yeah, if you were going to do that, you might as well get venture capital to pay for that, because those are the only people that would care.
13:02 < nmz787> wtGFP isn't as useful/'right' as eGFP
13:03 < ParahSailin> im ignorant of exactly what he intends to do here
13:03 < nmz787> he basically already told you
13:03 < nmz787> FLOSbio
13:03 < ParahSailin> thats what
13:04 < nmz787> Free Libre Open Source bio
13:04 < nmz787> what parts he'll focus on i dunno
13:04 < ParahSailin> yes im familiar with the acronym
13:04 < nmz787> or systems
13:04 < nmz787> or subsystem
13:04 < nmz787> ss
13:04 < nmz787> he was working on some easier transformation process
13:05 < nmz787> and was trying to fit some GFP vector into the EU law stuff
13:05 < nmz787> so people could legally buy a transformation kit with all the parts, even if when they shoved DNA into the vector it would be crossing-the-legal-line
13:05 < nmz787> the sale and transfer of the base requirements wouldn't be encumbered
13:06 < nmz787> something about mutating a natural e.coli/bacillus plasmid
13:06 < nmz787> since EU doesn't care if it's cisgenic
13:06 < ParahSailin> i thought possiblity of customers breaking any laws was a dealbreaker
13:06 < nmz787> or something
13:06 < nmz787> not buying into anything that's encumbered by IP is more like it, I think
13:07 < gradstudentbot> Who got mustard on my cell culture?
13:08 < ParahSailin> so it sounds like customers using his stuff would be taking legal risks in using it anyway
13:09 < nmz787> i think so, if they're adding exogenous noncisgenic DNA
13:09 < nmz787> for a transformation helloworld no laws would be broken
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13:09 < nmz787> (i believe)
13:10 <@fenn> how about doing it the hard way, send your customer a jellyfish and a truckload of restriction enzymes
13:11 < ParahSailin> nah, that jellyfish might have been illegally harvested
13:11 < ParahSailin> sell them a boat instead
13:11 < ParahSailin> and those restriction enzymes are encumbered too
13:11 <@fenn> no way, all that stuff was done in the 70's
13:11 < ParahSailin> those were all enhanced
13:12 < nmz787> i think you can buy domenstically bred jellyfish
13:13 < nmz787> it's a recent thing on kickstarter
13:13 < ParahSailin> that raises issues of animal cruelty
13:13 < nmz787> some dude selling the whole tank and feeder
13:13 < nmz787> aren't they invertebrates?
13:13 < ParahSailin> yeah but they have neurons
13:13 < nmz787> but the original wt parents were illegally caught and held captive in most cases i blieve
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13:14 < nmz787> so law only dictaces the children are legal to sell
13:14 <@fenn> it's illegal to catch jellyfish?
13:14 < ParahSailin> possibly, consult a lawyer
13:14 < nmz787> i think it's the captivity thing that's an issue
13:14 < nmz787> or breeding them
13:14 < nmz787> or something
13:14 <@fenn> i thinnk you're going to have a hard time doing anything if you assume everything is illegal
13:14 < nmz787> breeding a wild one is illegal maybe
13:15 < nmz787> everything is illegal
13:15 <@fenn> then kill yourself
13:15 <@fenn> fuck
13:15 <@kanzure> btw selling jellyfish is actually somewhat profitable right now
13:15 <@kanzure> because nobody has any
13:15 < nmz787> what's the best gauge needle to interact with a SureSeal vial?
13:16 <@kanzure> i think it's breeding them that is currently the issue
13:16 <@kanzure> not captivity
13:16 < cathalgarvey> Man, you guys are still talking about me
13:16 < cathalgarvey> I'm touched
13:16 < cathalgarvey> Also, you're all off the mark
13:16 < nmz787> you don't show up enough, we've a queue
13:17 < cathalgarvey> GFP is a red herring here. I'd like to sell something, so I'm using unencumbered fluorophores, but the fluorescence is incidental, just a nice way to test the real thing
13:17 < cathalgarvey> The project is a patent-free, cheap, easy protein purification (by affinity) system
13:17 < cathalgarvey> Existing systems are either patented, meaning startups implementing with them are liable for patent assault, expensive, or just plain terrible
13:17 < ParahSailin> so you're not even going to be selling the fluorophores?
13:18 < cathalgarvey> I have a potential system that's workable, cheap, and the resin is available cheaply anywhere.
13:18 < cathalgarvey> No, I'd happily sell it as a "hello world" if it works, too. But it's basically an experimental platform on which to design other products
13:19 < cathalgarvey> And, being fluorescent, it'd make a great positive control for use with those other products, too
13:19 < cathalgarvey> but as I've never had cause to UV illuminate E.coli cultures on TB prior to this, I had underestimated just how fluorescent normal cells are :x
13:20 < cathalgarvey> and the literature on wtGFP prior to eGFP didn't make a big point of how bad resolution was with wtGFP.
13:20 < cathalgarvey> Because, I guess, they didn't expect better at the time..
13:20 < cathalgarvey> So I'm in this position which, it turns out in retrospect, was considered normal "at the time", where "my cells are fluorescent green but then all E.coli are"
13:21 < cathalgarvey> I ordered this prior to DNA 2.0 releasing three fluorophores under the BPL (FML)
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13:22 < cathalgarvey> So I'm sorely tempted to ditch the effort of working with wtGFP, confirming with DNA2.0 that they are pretty certain their fluorophores are otherwise unencumbered, and using those BPL-licensed ones instead. The yellow one has a nice exitation/emission gap and yellow is very different from the E.coli autofluorescent green.
13:23 <@fenn> by resolution do you mean signal to noise ratio?
13:23 < cathalgarvey> Yea
13:24 < cathalgarvey> E.coli and anything containing yeast extract are both fluorescent under blue/UV, emitting green
13:24 < cathalgarvey> and wtGFP is 20 times weaker than eGFP even when it's working well, but it's so fragile to high temperatures, overexpression, redox etc, that it's hard to know for sure it's even expressing well
13:25 < cathalgarvey> I'm in the uncomfortable position of having no negative controls, too
13:25 < cathalgarvey> which is kind of pissing me off, too.
13:25 < ParahSailin> huh https://www.dna20.com/products/protein-paintbox#3
13:25 < ParahSailin> anyone have these yet?
13:25 < cathalgarvey> My DH10B got corrupted and I'm finding it bizarrely hard to find a vendor..
13:25 < cathalgarvey> Those are the ones I meant: three of them are BPL licensed now
13:25 < cathalgarvey> I added them to the fastac libs folder
13:26 < ParahSailin> theyre all ip-free it says
13:26 < cathalgarvey> DNA 2.0 have a bad history of not really understanding what IP-free means
13:26 < cathalgarvey> so take them at their word only when they've signed a license saying so: as they did for 3, but not all, of their fluorphores. Are there only three in that kit? (looks)
13:26 <@fenn> how about a different (non-fluorescent) protein indicator such as lactase and X-GAL
13:27 < cathalgarvey> https://gitorious.org/fastac/fastac/blobs/master/libs/FluorescentProteins.fasta
13:27 <@kanzure> DNA2.0 has other weird history- like at fbi-diybio-2012 they said something about selling to non-institutional individuals, but then in their talks about dna filtering, they said the opposite.
13:27 < cathalgarvey> @fenn I could, yes. I just assumed, naively, that wtGFP wasn't that bad.
13:27 < cathalgarvey> lol, DNA filtering
13:27 < cathalgarvey> enzymatic synthesis for the win
13:27 < cathalgarvey> someday..
13:28 < ParahSailin> i dont see where it says the licenses
13:28 < cathalgarvey> (I wonder what programming language Gitorious thinks my FASTA files are.. Odd syntax highlighting)
13:28 < gradstudentbot> I am kind of curious what he has a Ph.D. in, I can't really find this anywhere, it could be underwater basket weaving for all I know.
13:28 < cathalgarvey> The link to the BPL license is in the comments in the repo link I posted
13:28 < cathalgarvey> Right
13:28 < cathalgarvey> It's been fun folks
13:29 < cathalgarvey> but my laptop is about to become a glorified DVD player for a while
13:29 < cathalgarvey> so gotta logoff
13:29 < gradstudentbot> I think I'll be done in 4 years.
13:29 < cathalgarvey> All the best!
13:29 < cathalgarvey> @gradstudentbot You won't, nobody is
13:29 < gradstudentbot> I think the centrifuge is broken.
13:30 < ParahSailin> it says they're all unpatented
13:30 < ParahSailin> https://www.dna20.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Intellectual_Property_Statement.pdf
13:34 < cathalgarvey> But, the BPL protects against *all future* assertions of IP, too
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13:35 < cathalgarvey> until they BPL license or their window for patenting expires, they're not truly "IP free"
13:35 < cathalgarvey> Anyways, gotta go!
13:35 < cathalgarvey> Best, all
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13:35 < nmz787> i am dang
13:35 < ParahSailin> sanctimonious wanker
13:35 < nmz787> dang
13:35 < nmz787> i wanted to ask him something
13:36 < nmz787> I don't even know wha tBPL is, Bit Pulse Logic???
13:36 < nmz787> (i know it's not that)
13:36 < ParahSailin> who gives a fuck
13:36 <@kanzure> it's probably the biobrick public license or sometihng
13:36 <@kanzure> *something
13:37 < ParahSailin> public domain is just fine
13:37 <@bkero> is biobrick CC-approved?
13:37 < ParahSailin> i think stallman is probably more pragmatic than that kid
13:38 <@kanzure> BPL is some marketing stunt by the biobricks foundation, but sadly there's only 2 biobricks licensed under that license
13:38 <@kanzure> i guess this fluorophore is a possible addition ?
13:38 <@kanzure> so maybe 5 now?
13:39 <@fenn> https://biobricks.org/bpa/faq/
13:39 <@kanzure> oh that's bpa not bpl
13:39 <@kanzure> hmm
13:40 <@fenn> BPA's are bad mmkay
13:40 <@kanzure> the plastic junk?
13:40 <@fenn> it's evil industrial chemicals, i know that because it's not natural
13:41 <@fenn> i wonder why they don't retroactively apply the BPA to earlier biobricks
13:42 <@kanzure> because they don't have the licensing figured out laready
13:42 <@kanzure> *already
13:43 <@kanzure> probably the individual schools would assert ownership
13:43 <@fenn> that seems to go against the whole point of having a library of free-to-use parts
13:45 < ParahSailin> they only distribute to academic institutions
13:45 <@kanzure> it's not as free as they claim it, yo
13:46 < ParahSailin> i remember talking to cathal 3 years ago, offering him biobricks
13:46 < ParahSailin> dont think hes accomplished anything in the meantime
13:47 <@kanzure> he's written some software
13:47 < ParahSailin> wet, i mean
13:48 <@kanzure> i think he just described some of his progress above
13:49 < ParahSailin> spend years dicking around then realize that wtgfp is crap and should have just disregarded law?
13:49 < nmz787> no that was just the last year i think
13:50 <@kanzure> huh? it's okay to have to replace a small part of your project.
13:50 <@kanzure> "oh my god something doesn't work, let's stop everything"
13:50 <@kanzure> 1) delete the computer 2) throw out your reagents 3) ..
13:50 <@kanzure> s/delete/wipe
13:52 < ParahSailin> protein purification columns? we have division of labor so that you dont have to make sundry commodities for yourself
14:01 <@kanzure> but i can if i so choose to
14:04 < ParahSailin> amish is not the future of humanity
14:05 < delinquentme> nmz787, do you remember the chemistry paper about 3 months back which was 3d printing crucibles for chemistry?
14:05 <@kanzure> it's not amish
14:05 <@kanzure> just because amish choose to do something that might seem similar doesn't mean it's amish
14:06 <@kanzure> "OH MY GOD THE AMISH USE IPHONES AND SMARTPHONES, THEREFORE WE SHOULDN'T EITHER"
14:06 <@kanzure> also electricity
14:06 <@kanzure> fuck off
14:07 < gradstudentbot> Nobody has tried this before.
14:09 < nmz787> ParahSailin: i just watched a BBC documentary on amish ppl last night
14:10 < nmz787> ParahSailin: they were doing damn well
14:10 < nmz787> delinquentme: yes, it wasn't that amazing
14:10 < delinquentme> nmz787, sure but how can I locate it ? Is "crucuble" the right term?
14:12 < ParahSailin> the amish are pretty rich, i know
14:13 < ParahSailin> i just dont think there's anything particularly virtuous or productive about making your life more difficult
14:15 < nmz787> they mentioned Jesus a lot
14:16 < nmz787> delinquentme: http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/2012/08/3d-printed-miniaturised-fluidic-devices
14:17 < delinquentme> nmz787, tyvms!
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14:17 < delinquentme> nmz787, this paper?!
14:20 < nmz787> http://www.nature.com/news/homegrown-labware-made-with-3d-printer-1.10453
14:20 < nmz787> http://www.nature.com/nchem/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nchem.1313.html
14:20 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1038%2Fnchem.1313
14:20 < nmz787> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCfpxA1q4uk
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14:54 <@fenn> jeez $200 just to watch recorded conference talks? what's the world coming to
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14:56 < nmz787> yeah i'm in no position to splurge on that
14:57 < nmz787> i hoped someone who did had posted their code
14:57 <@fenn> .title
14:57 < yoleaux> Chemical Reactors Made By 3-D Printing - YouTube
14:57 < nmz787> i'm sure we could manage a logged-in vimeo scraper
14:57 <@fenn> youtube-dl works on vimeo too
14:58 <@fenn> or do you mean for sb6.0 videos?
14:58 < nmz787> yeah
14:58 < nmz787> the latter
15:01 <@fenn> btw pretty sure most amish use smartphones these days
15:03 <@fenn> at work at least
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15:21 <@kanzure> ParahSailin: it's not about making your life more difficult, it's about making reagents more cheaply by owning your own infrastructure. it's about making other downstream things possible that aren't otherwise available if you have to pay $40 million per genome you synthesize.
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16:33 < heath> [15:07:19] <gradstudentbot> Who got mustard on my cell culture?
16:33 < gradstudentbot> Dude, you contaminated my experiment.
16:33 < heath> [15:10:34] <fenn> how about doing it the hard way, send your customer a jellyfish and a truckload of restriction enzymes
16:44 < ParaSa1lin> its smart to weigh cost and benefits
16:45 < ParaSa1lin> multiply the probability of being liable for 40 million by 40 million, and subtract by the cost of avoiding that risk
16:45 < ParaSa1lin> if its positive, dont do it
16:46 <@fenn> i guess it would be an integral of the probability of being liable for any given amount, summed from negative infinity to positive infinity
16:48 <@fenn> how do you do integrals of functions with uncertainties?
16:49 < gradstudentbot> The gel is streaking.
17:02  * brownies pokes gradstudentbot 
17:02 < gradstudentbot> Yeah, but his project was so easy.
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18:08 < ParaSa1lin> fenn, bayes theorem
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19:17 <@kanzure> bayes bayes bayes
19:17 <@kanzure> stupid gotomeeting why do i even bother
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20:04 < heath> benchling launched at sb6.0
20:04 < heath> Benchling just launched at the SB6.0 conference here in London.  You're welcome to come check it out at https://benchling.com/signup, with invite code "SB60"
20:04 < heath> We literally just got the last build out the door, so we haven't had much time outside of fixing bugs and server crashes, but rest assured we'll contribute some of our more interesting modules back to the community, as well as pushing some biopython patches upstream.
20:15 < ParaSa1lin> hm i had some patches for biopython
20:16 < heath> ParaSa1lin: what happened to them?
20:16 < ParaSa1lin> forgot what they were though
20:17 <@kanzure> heath: meh, yet another product announcement for something nobody wants
20:17 < ParaSa1lin> oh, yeah i use some c extensions with it
20:17 <@kanzure> biopython changes would be nice, but whatever
20:17 <@kanzure> n 17
20:17 <@kanzure> jdfladjfka
20:17 < ParaSa1lin> but actually all i did was paste the same source into cython and build
20:17 < ParaSa1lin> 20x speedup
20:18 < gradstudentbot> Yeah, I read the paper, I just don't remember the details.
20:18  * brownies pokes gradstudentbot 
20:18 < gradstudentbot> Yeah, it should take me about 2 days.
20:25 < heath> gradstudentbot: faster!
20:25 < gradstudentbot> I lost my pipette.
20:26 < heath> gradstudentbot: no excuses
20:26 < gradstudentbot> It's not really significant, but there's definitely a trend.
20:27 < heath> i'm impressed with the bot's past two responses
20:31 < mensch> gradstudentbot: melatonin
20:31 < gradstudentbot> Should this be on ice?
20:31  * kanzure pokes gradstudentbot
20:31 < gradstudentbot> I can't help it, I just like science so much.
20:32 < heath> [11:20:20] <kanzure> hey if you wanna be helpful can you go find the paper about cellular uptake of different dna origami shapes
20:32 < heath> kanzure: did you find that
20:32 <@kanzure> no, you did
20:32 < heath> great
20:32 <@kanzure> you even linked me to it
20:33 < heath> wasn't sure that's the one you wanted
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20:44 < heath> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/formlabs/form-1-an-affordable-professional-3d-printer
20:44 < heath> .title http://www.xconomy.com/boston/2013/06/24/formlabs-3d-systems-in-settlement-talks-over-3d-printing-patent/
20:44 < yoleaux> Formlabs, 3D Systems in Settlement Talks over 3D Printing Patent | Xconomy
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20:52 <@kanzure> isn't that old stuff by now
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21:47 < heath> paperbot: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/yea.1412/abstract
21:47 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag1/10.1002/yea.1412.pdf
21:50 < heath> paperbot: http://www.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev-bioeng-070909-105238?journalCode=bioeng
21:51 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1146%2Fannurev-bioeng-070909-105238
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22:26 < ParaSa1lin> (http://libgen.org/scimag1/10.1002/yea.1412.pdf
22:27 < delinquentme> you know what I like BOUT my projects
22:27 < delinquentme> they're benign
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--- Log closed Fri Jul 12 00:00:23 2013