--- Log opened Sat Oct 05 00:00:39 2013
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02:17 < pasky> kanzure: the real bug is the first line shouldn't be there, as it's obviously confusing
02:18 < pasky> kanzure: you don't run this script standalone, you run it from blender and blender shoves python3 down your throat, you like it or not :)
02:18 < pasky> but it does it in a weird way that won't set up the searchpath properly
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08:57 < EnLilaSko> paperbot: http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=8801962
08:57 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag5/10.1017/S0007114512000566.pdf
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11:09 <@kanzure> i'm not making much progress on the python/windows problem
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11:23 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [-o kanzure] by kanzure
11:38 < archels> paperbot: http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.3109/07388551.2013.823595
11:38 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag5/10.3109/07388551.2013.823595.pdf
11:39 < archels> .title
11:39 < archels> Review Article
11:39 < archels> An overview of the last 10 years of genetically engineered crop safety research
11:39 < kanzure> #swhack turned off .title on their bot
11:45 < kanzure> pasky: is blender all C?
11:47 < kanzure> hm looks like yes https://svn.blender.org/svnroot/bf-blender/trunk/blender/source/blender/bmesh/operators/
12:04 < entelechios> man i saw some website the other day
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12:04 < entelechios> freaking out over the singularity university's giving away of GFP-infused houseplants
12:06 < entelechios> i get the detriments of some of the things that happen in the realm of GE stuff but getting all shrill about it is never a very convincing or persuasive way to get people to care about these issues
12:06 < entelechios> especially people who matter (IE the biotechnologists themselves)
12:14 < kanzure> it was probably those etcgroup people. they did one of those anti-kickstarter pages. it was boring as all hell.
12:19 < entelechios> yeah those goons
12:19 < entelechios> they just left such a weak impression on me hahaha
12:21 < cluckj> yes
12:21 < cluckj> same here
12:25 < kanzure> just ignore them, it's not worth your energy
12:25 < kanzure> if you insist on reading their material and complaints, just don't bring it up
12:25 < kanzure> also, for fun, replace every time they say "seed" with "human" or "person"
12:26 < kanzure> (and suddenly they will sound like a radical eugenics org)
12:26 < cluckj> hahahaha
12:26 < cluckj> :)
12:27 < kanzure> "We must control environmental release of humans", etc
12:28 < cluckj> "these humans are a danger if released"
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12:29 < kanzure> right? "Oh yeah, good job guys, really insightful fucking contribution..."
12:31 < cluckj> bbl, train's getting in soon
12:31 < archels> Blender at the least is also Python
12:32 < kanzure> archels: i'm concerned about how they choose to integrate python
12:32 < kanzure> archels: you should be able to import blender in other python projects, not "run your python project entirely inside blender's runtime just because you use some aspect of blender once"
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12:35 < archels> Blender-as-a-library.
12:35 < archels> that would be nice
12:36 < nalkri> Death to applications!
12:36 < nalkri> Library-ify all the code!
12:36 < nalkri> Sorry, personal rant >.>
12:36 < archels> NeXT wooo
12:37 < kanzure> ParahSailin: so i fixed the brlcad post-install error. it turns out the path had to be to _bindings\__init__.py and not just _bindings\
12:37 < kanzure> nalkri: well, why not? why should i have to run the blender runtime just to manipulate some meshes?
12:38 < kanzure> archels: you could always just raytrace all your neurons..
12:38 < nalkri> kanzure: no, I really mean it, I just didn't mean to randomly turn up shouting in the channel
12:40 < kanzure> i wonder if blender would be easier to understand as a library
12:40 < kanzure> i would much rather learn which commands and objects to construct than which buttons to press like a jackass
12:40 < kanzure> oops i mean shortcuts
12:42 < kanzure> ParahSailin: so now i need to figure out how to cross-platformly pick brlcad .dll or .so files.
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14:29 < juri_> paperbot: http://dx.doi.org/10.3390/mi4010049
14:29 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Enhanced%20Liquid%20Metal%20Micro%20Droplet%20Generation%20%20by%20Pneumatic%20Actuation%20Based%20on%20the%20StarJet%20Method.pdf
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17:43 < pasky> anyone knows how much dead opencog is?
17:44 < kanzure> i haven't heard any spam from ben goertzel in a long time
17:44 < kanzure> i would say it's especially dead if he's not in china now. i haven't looked.
17:46 < pasky> thanks! hmm, is there any other strong ai initiative worth looking at, currently?
17:57 < kanzure> blue brain project
17:57 < kanzure> and whatever archels says
18:03 < pasky> hmm i suppose blue brain can be regarded as agi, i guess i had something less.. neurological ;) in mind (seems to me that with neurology simulation it's quite certain that nothing too interesting will likely happen in next 20 years; with other approaches, the confidence bounds are quite looser, but in both directions)
18:05 < kanzure> why does it matter if it's "agi" or "ai" or whatever? we know that (human, and some non-human) brains are doing interesting things, so let's do that, right?
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18:09 < kanzure> Error 193: %1 is not a valid Win32 application. line: _dlopen in ctypes.cdll.
18:09 < kanzure> weird how %1 is not being formatted correctly :(
18:11 < pasky> kanzure: dunno, having a conscious, thinking computer is much more interesting for me personally than emulating dog's brain playing fetch
18:11 < gradstudentbot> So, I'll let you have my reagents when I'm done with my project.
18:11 < kanzure> fuck consciousness, that's bullshit
18:12 < kanzure> same crap as having a soul
18:12 < kanzure> or life force
18:12 < pasky> well i didn't mean it in an esoteric way, more like "has to be really smart" way
18:13 < pasky> having its own agenda, i guess
18:13 < kanzure> could you clarify about the playing fetch part?
18:13 < kanzure> so let's say that you had a pile of software that did brain-like things
18:13 < kanzure> and i tested it once upon a time with a game of fetch
18:13 < kanzure> are you arguing that this testing invalidates the software or something?
18:14 < kanzure> i am currently dealing with windows/python issues so conversations are presently hazy for me
18:16 < pasky> what i meant is that it seems clear to me that creating sufficiently complex synthetic neural networks is very far ahead; it's far less clear how long other approaches can reach a similar goal, which means it's more likely that they'll take longer but also more likely they can offer some shortcuts, and shortcuts are interesting to me :)
18:17 < kanzure> have you read the brain emulation roadmap?
18:17 < pasky> it seems likely that synthetic nns will go through similar phases as brains of animals and most of these seem really boring :)
18:17 < pasky> i've read some, which one do you have in mind?
18:17 < kanzure> the one that anders and todd wrote
18:18 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/brain-emulation-roadmap-report.pdf
18:19 < pasky> thanks, gomm
18:19 < pasky> *gonna read
18:35 < kanzure> ParahSailin: aughhh the other problem was that i was using 32-bit brlcad in 64-bit python.
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21:01 < kanzure> paperbot: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v365/n6447/abs/365611a0.html
21:01 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1038%2F365611a0
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22:37 < klafka> so are 3d printers really going to get better substantially due to those laser sintering patents expiring ?
22:38 < klafka> also will it not use abs plastics like formlabs?
22:39 < gradstudentbot> The paper got rejected.
22:42 < fredox> depends on the price of lasers
22:42 < fredox> not overly keen on the resin based ones
23:08 < nmz787> paperbot:http://dx.doi.org/10.1111/j.1365-2672.2005.02563.x
23:08 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag2/10.1111/j.1365-2672.2005.02563.x.pdf
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23:14 < juri_> resins end up pretty expensive.
23:15 < juri_> i'm working on PC printing.
23:24 < nalkri> PC?
23:26 < nalkri> Polycarbonate?
23:28 < gradstudentbot> No no no no! Use your key commands!
23:31 < nmz787> anyone here in UK?
23:31 < nalkri> Yes
23:31 < nmz787> talkin about this stuff?
23:31 < nmz787> there is cheap resin avail for u
23:32 < nmz787> untested for 3D but should work AFAIK
23:32 < nalkri> Oh, for STL?
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23:32 < nalkri> I'd don't have an STL printer so I couldn't use it even if it were free
23:32 < nmz787> http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/EcoVomp_UV-L_Resin.pdf
23:33 < nmz787> they sell it for composite material use
23:33 < nmz787> but it's made from linseed oil
23:34 < nmz787> shipping to U.S. was weird last year for hazardous materials, dunno if that's changed
23:34 < nmz787> it would've made it expensive unless I bought a few thousand dollars worth at a time
23:35 < nmz787> but for ppl in UK or EU it was super cheap
23:35 < nalkri> Cool, I'll keep it i nmind for if anyone asks
23:35 < nalkri> And I do like bioplastics
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23:35 < nmz787> "regarding 1kg of resin being delivered to you in the US - we would have to use a carrier and it is working out approx 105.00 sterling plus the cost of 1kg of resin @ 14.25"
23:36 < gradstudentbot> Am I going to be first author?
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--- Log closed Sun Oct 06 00:00:46 2013