--- Log opened Tue Dec 04 00:00:42 2018
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02:14 < TMA> do I understand it correctly that "freedom of religion" in the USA is really "freedom of religion I can imagine my somewhat misguided friend having"? [asking as a foreigner]
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04:51 < fenn> TMA: usually it refers to the bill of rights, which prohibits the government from making laws in favor or against any specific religion
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04:54 < fenn> in practice this means that in many situations you'd expect would be clearly against the law, people have convinced judges that being required to follow the law like everyone else would be infringing on their freedom to hurt children or whatever
04:54 < fenn> sorry i mean infringing their freedom of religion
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05:23 < TMA> on the other hand I heard that the freedom of not paying taxes (i mean freedom of religion) is not being upheld as strongly as the freedom to hurt children
05:24 < fenn> that's news to me
05:27 < TMA> fenn: In the often cited case of U.S. v. Lee (455 U.S. 252 (1982)), the court found that "not all burdens on religion are unconstitutional." The court went on to say that "The state may justify a limitation on religious liberty by showing that it is essential to accomplish an overriding governmental interest."
05:27 < TMA> U.S. v. Lee (455 U.S. 252 (1982)) https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/455/252/case.html
05:32 < fenn> well this is strange because there is a similar conflict with catholics not wanting to contribute to abortion or contraception by being required to purchase health insurance that provides those services
05:32 < fenn> and in that case they were allowed not to do so because it would infringe their freedom of religion
05:33 < fenn> it was passed as a law i think, which would explain the inconsistency
05:39 < TMA> perhaps it boils down to the raw numbers... there are probably way less people trying to avoid taxes using their religion than catholics. in a democracy you can easily disenfranchise/discriminate anybody, as long as you do not piss off too many voters at once
05:39 < fenn> also re: US vs Lee:  "generally the Amish do not agree with the idea of Social Security benefits and have a religious objection to insurance.[93] On this basis, the United States Internal Revenue Service agreed in 1961 that they did not need to pay Social Security-related taxes. In 1965, this policy was codified into law."
05:40 < fenn> "The U.S. Supreme Court clarified in 1982 that Amish employers are not exempt, but only those Amish individuals who are self-employed."
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09:04 < superkuh> https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2018/12/03/486134 "Transcranial ultrasound selectively biases decision-making in primates" - influencing eye saccades
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16:55 < nsh> <superkuh> https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2018/12/03/486134 "Transcranial ultrasound selectively biases decision-making in primates" - influencing eye saccades
16:55 < nsh> careful now
16:57 < nsh> i had this revelation once on nitrous oxide, turns out that the extra ocular musculature has a role in 'focusing' blood flow or something in the brain which modulates the dynamics of thought processes
16:57 < nsh> this is probably what's going on with ultrasound entrainment
16:59 < nsh> a train is thought is actually a nervous-system<->musculature coordinated, mmm, abstract dynamic proprioceptive process
16:59 < nsh> that's enough
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17:38 < kanzure> "The factors under consideration [at Asilomar] extend far beyond [the scientists'] technical competence. In fact they were making public policy. And they were making it in private." - sen. ted kennedy
17:40 < kanzure> (2016) https://www.technologyreview.com/s/600774/top-us-intelligence-official-calls-gene-editing-a-wmd-threat/
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19:05 < nmz787> nsh: hmm, that makes me think of blind people and how that might change the influence, or make visuals less responsible for thought patterns?
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--- Log closed Wed Dec 05 00:00:43 2018