--- Log opened Fri Mar 12 00:00:53 2021
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02:41 < maaku> and that is why it is not worth debating any of this
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04:28 < juri_> this, this, a thousand times this.
04:44 < maaku> lsneff: atomic machines looks like an MIT startup?
04:45 < maaku> I assume Patil's dissertation probably has some clue as to their technical approach
04:45 < maaku> oh they're based out of Berkeley. interesting.
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07:44 < lsneff> Indeed. I may look at papers that the individuals have produced recently, but I’m not expecting to find anything relevant
08:52 < lsneff> maaku: yep, here it is: http://cba.mit.edu/docs/theses/19.09.Patil.pdf
08:53 < lsneff> “multi-lamina assembly of laser micromachined laminates”
08:55 < lsneff> “Atomic Machines is doing something truly epic:  inventing the future of how things are made.  And a glorious future it will be.  We envision an era of atomically precise manufacturing (APM), essentially 3D printing anything at the molecular level, making anything from its digital description, blurring the line between bits and atoms.
08:55 < lsneff> Our first move on the long journey to this APM future is in the realm of microfabrication, making mechanical devices with features sized in the single-digit microns scale.  Our fabrication technology will be full-stack, 100% automated and data-driven, and we’re building the team now to make it a reality.”
09:02 < lsneff> This is great stuff. If they can make complex MEMS designs much cheaper and faster, then they might be able to get to STM arrays before anyone else.
09:03 < lsneff> And from there, it might be possible to start building atom-by-atom on silicon
10:32 < docl> I wonder if there's a substantial obstacle to using MEMS to make surfaces behave like they are moving. So you could walk on them and it would be like a moving sidewalk, Jetsons style without the big motors.
10:36 < docl> If you could put it in some kind of cheap to apply paint, you could then paint it on concrete for factory floor type logistics. Or maybe bottoms of shoes so you could do powered skating on smooth surfaces without wheels.
10:37 < docl> I'm thinking of something like a piezo inchworm linear motor
10:37 < docl> .wik Inchworm_motor
10:37 < saxo> "The inchworm motor is a device that uses piezoelectric actuators to move a shaft with nanometer precision.   /  In its simplest form, the inchworm motor uses three piezo-actuators (2 and 3, see Figure 1.) mounted inside a tube (1) and electrified in sequence to grip a shaft [...]" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inchworm_motor
11:42 < lsneff> The obstacle is cost
11:43 < lsneff> The substrate is expensive, etching is expensive, the shear amount of mems machines you'd need to cover any visible amount of surface would be expensive
11:45 < lsneff> In fact, it's totally possible to make a plane fly purely with mems aerosurfaces, but no one's done it, probably because of the cost
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12:14 < docl> huh... so that could change if cost to make MEMS stuff is reduced dramatically enough
12:17 < lsneff> Also durability
12:21 < lsneff> These would have sub-millimeter actuators. The oil in your skin would gum them up.
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14:33 < maaku> lsneff: his dissertation has 10um feature sizes
14:33 < maaku> that's...a long way from atomically precise
14:35 < lsneff> Yeah, the fact that it's laser based makes that obvious
14:43 < maaku> yeah I could see them improving feature size by an order of magnitude with better process
14:43 < maaku> but they need 10^5 improvement to get to atomic scale
14:44 < maaku> It's a kinda cool technology that is maybe transformative for buliding complex sensors for mobile devices (although I don't know how special it is... you can already do some wicked cool stuff with MEMS)
14:44 < maaku> but i don't see the connection to APM
14:47 < lsneff> There's not much information available, but to me, it seems like they have done plan to go from mems onward.
14:48 < lsneff> *some
14:54 < lsneff> Or maybe they have no idea.
14:55 < lsneff> It is interesting that they'd decided to brand around APM, rather than just as cheaper, faster MEMS
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15:05 < maaku> I want to say that it's just a spin to have a unique angle for fundraising, but I would expect that cheaper,faster,more capable mems is actually the better fundable idea
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16:11 < lsneff> .t https://link.springer.com/article/10.1140%2Fepjc%2Fs10052-021-08967-3
16:11 < saxo> Galactic rotation curve and dark matter according to gravitomagnetism | SpringerLink
16:12 < lsneff> I refuse to believe this paper is consistent.
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19:34 < maaku> lsneff: why?
19:35 < maaku> also: gravitomagnetic?
19:37 < maaku> I never took a GR course, so I'm wondering if this is a term they came up with or something I'm just ignorant of
19:37 < lsneff> maaku: gravitional analog of electromagnetism
19:37 < lsneff> Moving masses and all that
20:10 < lsneff> .t https://our.status.im/vitalik-escalates-eth-2-0-merge-as-miners-plan-a-51-attack/
20:10 < saxo> Vitalik escalates ETH 2.0 merge as miners plan a 51% attack
20:15 < fenn> 'Ethereum can perform a "quick merge" by rapidly moving from proof-of-work to proof-of-stake'
20:15 < fenn> uh huh
20:16 < fenn> seems like a drastic change
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20:19 < maaku> lsneff: yeah I just wasn't aware a moving mass induces a tangential accelration a la electric charges moving in a magnetic field, but maybe this is a GR thing (related to frame dragging?)
20:19 < lsneff> I believe it's another term for frame dragging
20:19 < maaku> ah ok
20:21 < maaku> Vitalik: we're going to get rid of the miners and give mining fees to the users; Miners: Uh, how about NO; Vitalik: <surprised pikachu face>
20:22 < maaku> Did he not speak to the miners at all? Amatuer hour.
20:22 < lsneff> a successful 51% attack on eth would be very bad for its value
20:22 < maaku> lsneff: ethereum has done worse in the past and survived
20:22 < maaku> see DAO fiasco
20:24 < maaku> Seriously though, when we rolled out merge mining to Tradecraft/Freicoin, I reached out to a supermajority of the hash power and made sure they understood and agreed with the long term value proposition.
20:24 < maaku> Since the switch to merge mining means they're now basically trivial and powerless, they had a lot to lose.
20:24 < maaku> Did the ethereum developers not do the same?
20:26 < lsneff> how many miners does tradecraft have?
20:26 < maaku> in terms of absolute hash power, effectively nil (hence the switch to merge-mining)
20:27 < maaku> but it still meant reaching out to a dozen or so people
20:28 < maaku> quick google shows that just 4-6 orgs control a majority of ethereum hashpower, so the situation would be comparable.
20:29 < maaku> lsneff: now that merge mining is active I am working to get bitcoin mining pools to adopt it, but as that's a work in progress,  the hashrate hasn't grown significantly
20:29 < maaku> a bit off topic though, better for #tradecraft
21:03 < lsneff> It's pretty cool how I sent an acquaintance some notes I had about programmable vr environments, and now he's started a company doing almost exactly that, just shittier.
21:05 < maaku> "just shittier" lol
21:06 < lsneff> It's the idea I had, just less generalized and worse
21:06 < lsneff> I need to be more careful about sharing ideas I guess
21:38 < fltrz> lsneff, I have an independent succinct derivation for gravitomagnetic term, so I faithfully believe it
21:39 < fltrz> i.e. my derivation does not rely on GR
22:02 < maaku> programmable VR goes back a long way -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croquet_Project
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--- Log closed Sat Mar 13 00:00:54 2021